Question about PMs

[saidva]

I’m an experienced field tech, but I’m relatively new to servicing Ricoh copiers.

My company’s copy center owns three machines that we now service ourselves -- two Gestetner 3265s and one Savin 2560. Naturally we want to keep our maintenance costs low, so: Should we do the Preventive Maintenance, or just replace the parts on an as-needed basis?

The company that used to service them (on a contract basis) never did any PMs. So we probably had more problems than if they had, but they always came right away and fixed them, so we were happy. And we understood that they would want to keep their costs down. (One copier has 2.5 million copies since the last PM, saving them thousands of dollars.) But what about machines that we own?

Are there certain parts of the PM (like maybe replacing air filters, the charge wire or the developer) that should be done on a regular basis, even if we don’t do the full PM?

Are there certain problems where the fix is to do one of the PMs? (I think I’ve seen these on some of the threads.)

Should we buy the PM kits and keep the parts on hand in case we need them? (The kits are not hugely expensive -- especially if you don’t do the PM.)

What do you those of you with more experience think? How should I handle the PMs?

-- Doug McNeil

[Ollie1981]

I work mostly on the successor machines to these:- mostly Ricoh 551/700 through MP7500 but the PM schedule is pretty much the same.

I was told pretty much by the boss "I don't care what you do as long as you change the developer and ozone filters"

But still I find it's good practice with these machines to change the following every 300k or so:-

Corona Wire, Grid, Cushions & Cleaning Pads

Drum Blade & Brush (I find you can often get more than the quoted 350k drum life if these items are changed)

Development Filters

Ozone Filters

Developer usually lasts to 600k, gets a bit iffy around 500k though.

Fusing Oil Roller

Some other places change out the feed clutches at a certain copy count, we do this for the Bellini (Aficio 850) but not for these machines. Also feed rollers, T-Belt, Drum, Hot/Press Roller etc are all fit on failure.

We also don't schedule PM calls for this kit, the company used to, but went to a purely emergency response because they found PMing them uneconomical. If we attend a machine for a fault and find that this stuff has gone over life, then we replace it.

Most of this stuff is relatively inexpensive but I suppose it's the combined cost of parts, travelling expenses and costs to pay someone to PM it.

[cobiray]

This can be a sticky wicket, kinda like maintenance on automobiles. I try to get my techs to do the maintenance as it's required. If the machine needs the parts and you're taking it apart anyway, why not replace all the PM parts? However, we use the PM kits when available, so if the kit is used, it's accounted for and goes out of inventory. If you're using individual parts it's a different story and then it's up to the prerogative of the tech/company. I'd personally rather do it all at once, than go back every time a consumable item kicks the bucket.

[DocF]

Both of these models really, honestly require properly done PMs at close to the factory suggested interval to run at their peak.

I worked for IKON, as pinch-penny an outfit as has ever existed, and they encouraged us to do complete PMs as it actually will save money over the long haul.

Doc

[blackcat4866]

It would have been truly impossible to service the Ricohs I did as Ollie described. Most of my machines did on average one emergency service between PMs. If I had to see the machines any more often the workload would been unbelievable/impossible. Your just trading off that "saved" parts cost for labor, by going back twice as often.

It also saves you a huge amount of troubleshooting time. It's a lot harder to troubleshoot three parts failures concurrently, than just do your PM.

My objective has always been to get the maximum amount of time between visits. It's a great way to impress your customer, too.

=^..^=

[verderacer]

From what I can determine the minor PM stuff like OS roller and OS cleaning roller, are every 150k. Major PM's are done at every 300k.

Ollie, I would try to get yourself a Ricoh tech ID and then do the online courses, or have your boss send you to a 1 week course at one of the Ricoh training centers. Once you have that done then you will be able to use Ricoh's websites to download any of the Product Support Guides that give all the individual part#'s and PM cycles.

[scully]

As already has been said , do your PM's as per the Manual.
It pays in the long run I can assure you !
John
Uk

[Andy21]

Hi,
our technicians do service on 75K

[Jomama46]

You are in a unique position. As a dealer I have to say we do PMs on time and by the book (pretty much) It pays off in the long run. Plus we have custom PM kits based on our experience, mostly added bushings.
But in your position, you're not doing any traveling, you are on site all the time so I think you should replace parts as needed, keeping in mind the expected life of the supplies. And when you replace the drum, replace every thing that touches the drum, when you replace the upper fuser roll, replace the os and os cleaning roller. And when you do anything, vac the interior! A clean machine is a happy machine.

[Ozzy]

Here's a tip: You can keep your jiffy lube bill low by only changing the oil in your car when the engine seizes.

But seriously, I'll let stuff slide on some of the older analog junk we still have running around on contract but anything newer, which usually run at lower margins on service contracts, need proper pm's to insure steady profit margins over its normal service life.

[Jomama46]

Here's a tip: You can keep your jiffy lube bill low by only changing the oil in your car when the engine seizes.

I love it!!!

[Ollie1981]

From what I can determine the minor PM stuff like OS roller and OS cleaning roller, are every 150k. Major PM's are done at every 300k.

Ollie, I would try to get yourself a Ricoh tech ID and then do the online courses, or have your boss send you to a 1 week course at one of the Ricoh training centers. Once you have that done then you will be able to use Ricoh's websites to download any of the Product Support Guides that give all the individual part#'s and PM cycles.

I've taken the online course, well........not for the SP5 (Gestetner 3260) but for the Martini (I'm not overly familiar with Savin's product numbering, but I'm assuming it's a 1060 in all but name) and done a four-day training course that included the 551 and 700.

I've got access to all the Ricoh manuals, RTBs and FOBs too.

It's just the policy of the company I work for, these things are decided by people further up in the food chain and toner monkeys like me just have to abide by it.

I agree with everything everyone has mentioned, sometimes you can be literally ALL DAY on a machine that's somehow managed to go 800k without an emergency call and only been attended once the customer has reported a fault that may or may not be related to a PM part.

But the rule is, if it's over life when you attend then you must replace it.

...plus there's always the problem of the lazy techs who fix the fault the customer reported and don't bother replacing any PM parts. This is my pet hate because then I have to justify to the boss an artificially inflated parts spend without resorting to "squealing" on a colleague.

We do a full scheduled PM on all of the high volume Bellini/Katana (Aficio 850/1050, 2090/2105 and MP1100/1350) range and the high volume colour (Aficio 3260c/5560)

[verderacer]

Ollie,

I agree and for the 6 months or so that I have worked at the dealer I am at have many times suspended PM's entirely. Until recently being purchased by Ricoh I honestly wonder how some of the machines kept running. When all of Ricoh's contracts were consolidated under to us from other dealers some of the machines were in horrible shape from lack of PM's. I was just amazed they kept running in many cases.

I do not want to hijack the thread but I am curious to know how long it take some of the more experienced techs here to do a PM on the mid range 35 and 45ppm machines, especially a dirty one.

[Jomama46]

an hour and a half normally.

[rthonpm]

PM for a 35/45 can take about an hour and a half to a little longer if the fingers and springs in the fuser need to be replaced as well.
For the most part I follow the PM advice of my old Ricoh teammates: the bigger the box the more you want to follow the PM cycle. Usually anything under 55 ppm I just do EM calls. The smaller machines usually have more users so there's a greater chance of failure before the PM yield. If an EM call comes in close to a PM cycle I will do the whole PM, but for the most part smaller machines give you a little more leeway.