Gun Control

[Rob Sandberg]

Re: Gun Control

I believe in your right to own firearms, as it is written in your Constitution, I have American Heritage and follow this closely.
All that the current and proposed firearm laws will do is affect the law abiding responsible firearms owner.
Here in Canada we went through our own trials with firearms rules and regulations.
Hand guns have had to be registered for a very long time now, long guns on the other hand have been through a lot of controversy over their registration.
As long as we keep our firearms locked in a secure location, with the ammunition in a separate location securely locked then all is fine.
The law abiding citizen will adhere to the laws and be just fine in the long run.
However the criminal and, for lack of a better description, the nut job don't give a rats ass about those or any other laws concerning firearms.
The right to protect one's family and property are unquestionably at the forefront of this current discussion.
Self preservation is a natural instinct, to protect one's spouse and offspring is also instinctive.
The means to protect them have changed from that of a big stick to the modern day boom stick.
I support you with responsible ownership in your pursuit to have a resolution to this matter.

Thank you for your common sense.

Rob S

[emujo]

Re: Gun Control

While I don't live in America, I do live in Tasmania where Martin Bryant killed 35 people and injured another 21 in the Port Arthur massacare.

Our gun laws where quite lapse at the point which this occurred and we went through something to which you are all going through now. We categorized firearms as follows:

Category A
Air Rifles, Rimfire rifles other than self loading, Shotguns other than Pump Action or self loading and shotgun and rimfire combination.

Category B
Muzzle loading firearms, centrefire rifles other than self loading and shotgun and centrefire combination.

Category C
Category C firearms licences are only avaiable to primary producers or a person employed or engaged in primary production, or a bona fide collector subject to certain conditions.

Selfloading rimfire with a magazine capacity of no more than 10 rounds, self loading shotgun with a magazine capacity of no more than 5 rounds and pump action shotguns with a magazine capacity of no more than 5 rounds.

Category D
Category D licences are only available to professional shooters whose principal occupation is the controlling of vertebrate pest animals or a bona fide collector subject to certain conditions.

Selfloading centerfire rifle, self loading shotgun with a magazine capacity of more than 5 rounds, pump action shotgun with a magazine capacity or more than 5 rounds and self loading rimfire rifles with a magazine capacity of more than 10 rounds.

Category H
A category H licence is only available to members of pistol clubs, persons employed as firearms dealers, security guards and security agents or a bona fide collector subject to certain conditions.

For Sports/Target shooting - Pistols and air pistols which do not exceed .38 calibre with a magazine capacity of 10 rounds or less.
For Security - Pistol that does not exceed .38 or 9mm calibre and must use factory load ammunition.

For bona fide collectors, the firearm must be blocked, firing pin removed and a legitmate reason for collecting such as a family heirloom.

Guns can only be transferred to another licence hold via a firearms dealer so that the registration of the firearm can be transferred to the new only and all paper work correctly given to our Police - Firearms branch.

Our laws may seem strict, but they work. It is extremely hard to get hold of firearms outside of the law. While this doesn't stop un-registered and illegal weapons, it makes it increasingly harder for criminals to acquire a gun. When you go for your licence, you need to have a full Police Check and only if you fully pass that, will you be allowed to sit through the firearms course which you must pass for each category.

I myself am a shooter with Category A and B licences, even though I have done some culling work, I never applied for a Category C licence as everything I had in the Cat A and B range did the job just nicely. I fully support the laws that we have, even though I lost the chance to own a family heirloom in the form of a Category D SKB Semi-Auto shotgun.

Remember, gun control isn't about taking everything away from you, it is about making the country a safer place to live in.

You say "we are about to go through this..", since I am not from Tasmania I have no idea how your constitution is written, or even if you have one (not trying to be disrespectfull here...) but we have a 2nd ammendment that gives us the right to keep and bear arms...So unless 75% of the states vote to remove the 2nd ammendment I don't forsee us going through the same thing your country went through..Emujo

[Shadow1]

Re: Gun Control

And they are proposed by people too timid to handle firearms in any way.

Just a few somewhat random points:

Timid? I don't think so. Hypocritical - Definitely. Look at all the big liberals proposing new gun restrictions - all of them, and I do mean ALL of them have CCW permits (That's Concealed Carry Weapons Permit for those offlanders following the conversation) Not to mention the fact that ALL of them also have armed security.

Perhaps we could get one of our Aussie friends to tell us what happens to the rate of home invasions and similar crimes when you ban guns.

Among other things, I own a 9mm pistol that stays loaded and in a safe, but easily accessible location. Both of my children (14 and 5) know exactly where it is, and both of them have been taught a healthy respect for firearms. (See a gun on TV and it goes bang - no big deal. Take the kids out with a couple water filled bottles and show them reality... KAPLOW!!!!! and the bottle explodes)

Yes I have several firearms in my household. Those designed for home protection are kept loaded, ready, and safe but easily accessible. The only way to get hurt with one of my guns is to try taking it away from me or hurting my family.

The problem is not the guns. When I was in High School we had kids go hunting in the morning before school and drive in with a deer rifle in their vehicle. It was never a problem - the guns haven't changed. The decay of morality and society in general is vastly more to blame than the tools used to commit the crime. Timothy McVeigh used fertilizer and kerosene to kill far more children than the shooter at Sandy Hook, yet it's still legal to buy fertilizer, kerosene, and delivery vans.

For those claiming the 2nd Amendment was never intended to allow personal ownership of anything more than a musket, ask yourself, Q: what form of weaponry the government had at the time... A: those very same muskets. Now read The Federalist Papers which is a published discussion of the reasoning behind our constitution - Google for it - the language is a bit arcane after over 200 years, but the reasoning produced a form of government that worked extremely well until we allowed far too many liberal policies to be implemented (even from the so called conservatives)

The founding fathers wanted us to have the ability to defend ourselves from all forms of malicious intent, especially from our own government. Remember, our Constitution was drafted as a result of The Declaration of Independence, and that document was drafted as a result of the tyranny imposed on us by an imperious king (My apologies to our friends across the pond)

In 1935 Adolf Hitler proudly proclaimed the Germany was a safer place with some of the same gun controls being proposed now. Ask any Jew how that turned out. Don't believe the American Government would turn on its own people? Ask the Japanese-Americans forcibly held in internment camps during WWII.

Gun registration is just the first step to banning guns - It makes it so much easier to know where they all are once they decide to come collect them.

That's not to say we don't need common sense regulation to keep them out of criminal hands. Not that the criminals are going to obey the law - duh, that's why they're criminals - but we don't need to make it easy for them either. I have no problem with background checks on all firearm sales, so long as it's a quick and reliable process, and that anyone erroneously denied a firearm has a fast and effective method of appeal... and again, I draw the line at any kind of registry.

As law abiding citizens we should be able to purchase any form of firearm, magazine, or ammo as our needs dictate. If I start hunting the ferral hogs that have become such a problem in my area, the I really do need a semi-auto 12 Gage with a high capacity magazine - them damn things are tough, and sometimes can take several slugs or rounds of buckshot and still keep charging at you - point is, the government just don't know, and it isn't any of their business as long as I remain a law abiding citizen... come to think of it, Obama and Company are not only violating the 2nd Amendment, but the 4th as well.

So now we get down to the real problem - the criminals. Look at all the slasher flicks coming out of Hollywood and it's no wonder people grab a gun and go into a school looking for their 15 minutes of fame. I'm going to propose 2 solutions here:

The first should be real popular with the liberals - let's call it a violence tax: Any violent movie, video game, etc. should be taxed at a rate massive enough to discourage their proliferation and profitablility, lets start at 100% and work our way up from there... Want to take the kids to see Bambi? 10 bucks... Texas Chainsaw Massacre - drop a $20 on it, and half of it can go toward reducing the national debt that's strangling us.

The second is to take anybody who uses a gun in a crime out of society permanently. Armed robbery = life in prison. Murder = death penalty. School shooting = very slow death penalty... like 1million paper cuts or standing in a shallow pool of acid... and executions should be public. Cruel and unusual punishment? Ask the families at Sandy Hook. We used to have public hangings in the old west - excellent deterrent, don't know why we ever stopped doing that.

Y'all chew on that for a while, my fingers are tired.

[Shadow]

Re: Gun Control

Very well spoken Shadow1.

When your politicians write these new lays that they propose, take the time and go through them thoroughly.
When our government here in Canada wrote the laws for long gun registration it was vague at best in the start.
The laws ended up in such a way that all they had to do was change the word from firearms to what ever they wanted,
say a screw driver, and it now became an offense to own one unless it was registered and properly stored in a locked safe.
I urge you to support the NRA and your local shooting associations, they will be your best advocates when it comes down to the crunch
of the government wanting to remove or limit your legal access to firearms.

[Shadow1]

Re: Gun Control

The laws ended up in such a way that all they had to do was change the word from firearms to what ever they wanted,
say a screw driver, and it now became an offense to own one unless it was registered and properly stored in a locked safe.

Actually I can see some sense in that considering how few murders are actually committed with a rifle of any kind :
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[MR Bill]

Re: Gun Control

Well Paul I don't think a mortgage has anything to do with this subject?? How about a 1000 manuals = a 1000 guns. I like that better. Don't you. ? LMAO.

And Man shadow. I like you Cannuks a lot all of a sudden. Good points buddy. And Shadow1.

All I point to in this debate is Rhawanda. In the 90's there were HALF A MILLION PEOPLE KILLED. Not with guns but spears, knives, clubs, etc. Roaming bands of monsters killing . Little boys, girls, old people. WHY.

The police sure didn't help. The government sure didn't help.

Don't take away the right to defend yourself. After the Rodney King verdit they were having riots in L.A. . The people up on the roofs with guns were able to save there property.

We can go on and on. Google Penn and Teller. They have good info about the 2nd admendment.

[SalesServiceGuy]

Re: Gun Control

Not that I am an expert by any means but in Canada, to own a firearm.

1). You have to take a federal long gun fire arms course. Approx $100.00 and six weeks after the course to get your certificate.
2). You take your certificate to a fire arms retailer, select your gun and pay for it. The retailer then sends in your certificate for a back ground check and wait another couple of weeks. If you have any history of violence, your application is denied and your money refunded.
3). If your application is approved, you have to apply for a permit to transport your new firearm to a designated location.
4). Once you get that transport permit, you need to show proof that the firearm will be stored in a locked safe, with a trigger lock and unloaded in a locked room. Local police have the right to spot check your home to make sure the firearm is stored properly or risk forfeiture.
5). If you want to transport that firearm to a different location, you need another travel permit and keep the firearm in a trigger lock and unloaded condition.
6). Should you want a handgun, you must first have a long gun license. You need to apply for a new different license and pass a different training course. Chances are good in Canada, if you are not a police officer, federal gov't officer or active military person, your application will be denied.
7). Should you want a AR15 style assault weapon in Canada, there is yet another special license procedure to apply for. For 99.9% of the population your chances are zero, you will never receive a permit.

I could be wrong on several details but you get the idea. Criminals seem to be able to access guns illegally but for the average person it takes time, effort, patience and money to acquire a firearm in Canada. In Canada, there is no such thing as gun shows and no such thing as legal private sales of guns without gov't notice.

I am happy with the gun laws in Canada. I have no intention of owning a firearm but would not deny other Canadians the right to buy one.

[copiman]

Re: Gun Control

Not that I am an expert by any means but in Canada, to own a firearm.

1). You have to take a federal long gun fire arms course. Approx $100.00 and six weeks after the course to get your certificate.
2). You take your certificate to a fire arms retailer, select your gun and pay for it. The retailer then sends in your certificate for a back ground check and wait another couple of weeks. If you have any history of violence, your application is denied and your money refunded.
3). If your application is approved, you have to apply for a permit to transport your new firearm to a designated location.
4). Once you get that transport permit, you need to show proof that the firearm will be stored in a locked safe, with a trigger lock and unloaded in a locked room. Local police have the right to spot check your home to make sure the firearm is stored properly or risk forfeiture.
5). If you want to transport that firearm to a different location, you need another travel permit and keep the firearm in a trigger lock and unloaded condition.
6). Should you want a handgun, you must first have a long gun license. You need to apply for a new different license and pass a different training course. Chances are good in Canada, if you are not a police officer, federal gov't officer or active military person, your application will be denied.
7). Should you want a AR15 style assault weapon in Canada, there is yet another special license procedure to apply for. For 99.9% of the population your chances are zero, you will never receive a permit.

I could be wrong on several details but you get the idea. Criminals seem to be able to access guns illegally but for the average person it takes time, effort, patience and money to acquire a firearm in Canada. In Canada, there is no such thing as gun shows and no such thing as legal private sales of guns without gov't notice.

I am happy with the gun laws in Canada. I have no intention of owning a firearm but would not deny other Canadians the right to buy one.

WOW

[Shadow1]

Re: Gun Control

Not that I am an expert by any means but in Canada, to own a firearm.

SNIP

I am happy with the gun laws in Canada. I have no intention of owning a firearm but would not deny other Canadians the right to buy one.

...and if some deranged lunatic begins stalking your wife just tell him to please wait 6 months until you permits come through.

The criminal sure won't have any problem getting a gun.

You outlanders keep hearing about all the gun violence in America, but we don't have any more violence than anywhere else, it's just being sensationalized by our leftward leaning media - which is part of the problem. Of the millions of guns in the US only an extremely small percentage are in the hands of criminals who are causing all the problems - any randomly selected gun is likely never to be fired at a live target (hunting weapons excepted) or if it is, it will be used once defending life and limb. Sorry, but crime has only gone up in America because all these liberal ideas and moral relativism, and it's my responsibility to protect my family.

Notice to criminals: I'm usually a nice guy and pretty easy to get along with, but do not attempt to harm my family. I am armed, I will not hesitate to pull the trigger, I don't fire warning shots, and I don't ever point a gun at anything I'm not prepared to kill. I don't want to shoot anybody, and pray I never have to, but if it comes down to it... it's the criminal's choice to be shot or not.

Most gun deaths are the criminals because they didn't heed this warning - most murders are as a result of ANY other weapon including bare hands.

[just a tech]

Re: Gun Control

I am a law abiding citizen and have had no issues at while owning any of my firearms.. So why should I be ridiculed or treated like an outlaw by my own government for owning or wanting to own firearms of any particular type.? It seems to me that our gov't, and I could care less if they are democrat or republican, always seems to try to use these horrific events that occur in our nation as a way to promote their ideas and provide some sort of reasoning for passing laws prohibiting people from owning firearms.. Do they not understand that the type of violence that occurs from time to time does not always involve guns..? Theoretically, someone could go to a school with nothing and grab a baseball bat from the gym and inflict serious and fatal damage to people within the school's confines..

I'm just saying that guns are not blame for problems.. The very same day of the Sandy Hook Elementary shootings, a chinese guy went through an elementary school in China with a knife stabbing 22 children.. China School Stabbing | Same Day As Sandy Hook Shooting 12/14/12 - Related Indian Videos, Bollywood Videos - uservideos.smashits.com .. So, you see.. The problem is with security and addressing problems BEFORE they happen.. I wonder if that would have happened here in the U.S., would they be wanting to ban knives as well..? No, they wouldn't.

The problem is that criminals & potentially mental nut-jobs do not care about laws and policies.. Therefore they will not obey them.. Making it harder for people to own a gun is NOT the answer.. Why not have the schools implement a security officer.? Here, in the city I live in, the police dept. has an officer stationed at the high school at all times.. It is not because it is a bad school.. Hell, they don't even have metal detectors or anything.. It's just what the city has done for the past several years to help ensure the safety of the school.. Just seems to me that the gov't is focusing on the wrong things and just using current events to fuel their agenda..

To me, banning types of guns due to public shootings is like trying to ban No.2 pencils due to mispelled words !!

Just a Tech..

[Shadow]

Re: Gun Control

SalesServiceGuy, you are so off base its not funny.

I hold both my restricted (handgun) and non-restricted (long gun) licenses.
Yest we have to do a safety course before we are able to apply for the licenses.
After you have made an application for these is when the " background check" is done.
Your name is run through several different federal and provincial data bases, after these are done and everything checks out ok they make a decision.
The decision is not made lightly, as they scrutinize your background heavily.
Once you have your licenses then you are able to purchase your firearms.
When you purchase a long gun you must show that you have the proper license for that firearm.
When you purchase a handgun, you need to have your restricted license and a special permit to transport it home and then another permit so that you can take it to the range.
When you want to purchase ammunition for your firearms you must show your license or you are refused.
When it comes to storing said firearms they must be in secured, locked, approved gun safes.
Firearms and ammunition are stored separately or you lose your licenses and firearms should the police decide to spot check your storage methods.

We do have gun shows and legal private sales of firearms. Long guns can be sold and transported the same day.
Restricted firearms (handguns) have to be legally transferred and registered to the new owner, this can take up to two weeks.
In order to take your hand gun to an approved range, you must hold a current valid membership to a gun club.
All firearms being transported must be secured and unloaded.
All of my handguns are trigger locked, case locked and secured in one of my gun safes.
All of my long guns are trigger locked and secured in any one of my gun safes.
All ammunition is stored in a separate designated safe.

All of these precautions are mandated by the firearms storage laws that we have here.

[SalesServiceGuy]

Re: Gun Control

... but not that far off base, as your own commentary acknowledges. I never claimed to be an expert on Canadian gun laws. The Canadian model is still way better, far safer and better regulated than the USA! Although illegal US guns are making their way into Canada every day in increasing numbers.

Regardless of the arguments for and against gun laws in the USA, 300 million guns for 300 million citizens is just nuts! The USA consistently leads the world by a wide margin in firearms murders with approx 15,000 per year. I would not want to live there.

Is this the future of the USA?

Man walks into JC Penney with an AR15 on his shoulder and a loaded handgun on his hip?

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=23769604

Hypothetically, could a copier technician walk into any USA business with a concealed hand gun permit in those states that permit it?

Are people in the USA allowed to carry concealed weapons into any business establishment they wish? Does the owner of that business have the right to deny access to their premises a person with a concealed handgun?

[Shadow1]

Re: Gun Control

...and Obama and Eric Holder are giving "assault weapons" to the Mexican drug cartels, which has already resulted in the deaths of US citizens. At least it's not your own government putting weapons in the hands of the bad guys.

Tell me, Shadow - should someone break into your home and threaten you family how long will it take you to retrieve your firearm, ammo, load, and discharge your weapon? Or do you intend to club them in the head with it and throw the bullets at them by hand? Must have one heck of a pitching arm. Not trying to poke fun at you, just saying there's not really much point in having a firearm designed for self defense if there's not much chance of being able to defend yourself with it.

... and CCW permits generally allow you to carry in any location not specifically banned (like banks) Shop owners can request no carry on their property, but most don't. Some actually encourage it - MANY cases of attempted robbery stopped by a good guy with CCW.

[JR2ALTA]

Re: Gun Control

When you want to purchase ammunition for your firearms you must show your license or you are refused.
When it comes to storing said firearms they must be in secured, locked, approved gun safes.
Firearms and ammunition are stored separately or you lose your licenses and firearms should the police decide to spot check your storage methods.

wow, you got to be kidding. so...police enter your house and "spot check" your property?

and why the hell would you have to separate your guns and ammo in your house?!

I'm not being felicitous. why?

obviously if there is a burglary or home invasion you might as well point your penis and piss at them because a loaded gun is 10 minutes out of reach.

[SalesServiceGuy]

Re: Gun Control

In Canada, if you want to own a firearm, federal laws permit police officers to spot check your house for safe storage and potential forfeiture.

In Canada, if you were to shoot a person who was entering your home with malice, you are guilty of a serious Federal crime.

In the USA, if two people are in a bar and they are drinking and one or both persons have concealed handguns and they begin to strongly argue does this not raise the possibility of hand gun violence 1000%?

On the theory that concealed hand guns prevent crime, what happens if a person trying to prevent a crime shoots an innocent bystander by mistake?