Gun Control

[Akitu]

Re: Gun Control

The amount of energy imparted to the "victim" is calculated as Energy = Mass * Delta Velocity - the faster the round changes velocity, the more energy is transferred to whatever it hit. There are 2 problems with JRN (Jacketed Round Nose) and FMJ (Full Metal Jacket - the same as JRN except the base of the bullet is also encased in the jacket material - usually copper) bullets is that since they do not expand, they travel a long way through flesh. this leaves a relatively long, but tiny hole in the victim - it will hurt like hell, and eventually bleed a lot, but won't knock you over, and it would take the vic a long time to become incapacitated unless you hit something REALLY vital - think head shot, because there have been many cases of criminals shot through the heart and still on the rampage for a long time because the relatively tiny hole in his heart didn't bleed rapidly. The second problem is those rounds tend to exit intact, and with out losing too much of their energy - they can go on to hurt someone else very easily.

JHP (Jacketed Hollow Point) rounds mushroom out inside the victim to several times their original diameter this creates a massive amount of surface area to transfer energy - if you do all the math, doubling the diameter creates 4 times the surface area, and if the resistance is relatively linear (it's not - it's actually greater) 4 times the surface area transfers energy 16 times faster than the JRN. These rounds typically do not exit the victim unless you get into the really big handgun or rifle rounds. If they do, they create a MASSIVE exit wound, and the additional energy dissipated creates shock waves and a wound cavity tens of times larger than the bullet. This isn't a little pinhole through the perp's heart, this is grabbing half the contents of his chest and shoving it out through his back.

If these rounds do exit the perp - say for example, you clipped him in the arm or something - then the bullet has lost much more energy to begin with, and it's flattened, misshaped form will lose energy much more rapidly hitting a wall, or through simple aerodynamics. The blunted shape is also less likely to penetrate into another person, so for any secondary person hit it would be more like getting punched than shot (still dangerous, but less likely to penetrate to something vital)

That may be a little more detail than anybody wants, but now you understand why JHP rounds are actually safer to use in self defense... unless you're the criminal.


*Irrelevant snip*

Good to know some of the dynamics about the rounds, I feel the ricochet point I raised may still hold validity. Also, a deformed bullet is less likely to react in a predictable manner and may actually be more dangerous should it exit the intended target.

While the point you raised about the FMJ and JRP rounds seems to hold some ground in that it may not stop the perp, the reality is the kinds of people who get shot somewhere critical yet continue about their rampage are a very rare scenario, even amongst the half billion "what if" questions. Chances are they're in peak physical condition and also hopped up on some illegal substance (think PCP hulk-like rage and immunity to pain). The chances of a regular civilian who has no prior affiliations to any criminals or these drugs encountering a person in this super-human state are comparable to chances of winning the lottery.

At what point as a citizen do you draw the line and say "okay, maybe I've crossed the line in my preparations here, this seems crazy even to me"?

[MR Bill]

Re: Gun Control

Shadow1 , good info on bullets.

I have killed about 25 deer in my life. I play mountian man and hunt with a 50 cal Hawkin style rifle. Nice tiger stripping stock. Very pretty work of art.

Anyway I shoot a 495 lead round ball. For you ignorant folks that don't know any thing about muzzleloaders that is just slightly smaller than 50 cal. You use a cloth patch to take up the rest of the space in the barrel. I dump about 80 grains of black powder down the barrrel. Put patch and ball on top of that.

Well what the hell happens when you shoot a deer. That lead ball Expands to about twice it's size. If it hits a rib bone it breaks up. The deer is really messed up. They don't go very far . Of course you have to hit them in a vital area. Heart, lungs. They don't use logic. They just run off and die after 50 yards. Most of the time I will retrive the lead ball on the far side of the deer just under the skin.

Anyway this is not a hollow point. It's just a round hunk of lead. Does plenty of damage.

So servicesalesguy. It don't matter if it's hollow point or not.

Now there is a picture of the first assault weapon. The Brown Bess musket. 75 cal. You could load that with 75 cal round ball, buck shot, bird shot, buck and ball . rocks if you ran out of ammo.

I have played mountain man for a long time and read alot about our history. Sometimes they would cast 2 75 cal balls and put a chain to the 2 balls. Can you imagine what 2 balls hooked with a chain would do to you if it hit you. Freaking cut you in half. They did that mostly for shooting at canoes to sink them. But anyway , bad stuff.

Watch the movie with Danial Day Lewis, Last of the Mohegans. French and Indian war , 1756

Red coats used muskets, militia used rifles. How would you like to die if you were a lady marching out of the fort. Tomahawk on your head. ?

Not a peaceful world at anytime in our history. That is why we have the 2A.

[Iowatech]

Re: Gun Control

Iowatech, I know my comments sounds silly.

Scan through this list published on the NRA website

NRA-ILA | National Organizations With Anti-Gun Po

Levis, Time magazine, Beyonce and Disney are all listed, It is hard to believe, is it not?

NRA members should demand a refund of their $35.00 year membership and elect new leadership.

Is that all it takes for what you think of as an enemies list? That appears to be pretty weak to me, but you can probably do better than that. At least show your work here. We're just fellow adults discussing issues we feel strongly about, after all.

[MR Bill]

Re: Gun Control

Well my $35 is well spent.

TED NUGENT for president. Ya hoo.

[SalesServiceGuy]

Re: Gun Control

I do not not if you just do not get it or you are just so entrenched in your position for gun rights that you do not want to acknowledge how publishing a list on the NRA's own website of 500 organizations condemning the likes the of the American Bar Association, the American Medical Association and the National Association of Police Organizations for their position on gun control is not somehow damaging to the NRA's reputation.

Adding an indiscriminate enemies list to the NRA website only highlights its isolation, consolidating opposition among the figures mentioned and their fans.

The list includes just about every major American faith group and denomination, every major ethnic group and voter constituency. Adding the National Coalition Against Domestic Violence and National Spinal Cord Injury Association to the list of anti-gun enemies is either clueless or callous -- or both.

The list shows how extreme, fanatical and out of touch the NRA has become, almost cult like.

[fixthecopier]

Re: Gun Control

Well my $35 is well spent.

TED NUGENT for president. Ya hoo.

Ted Nugent is a draft dodging scum bucket piece of shit. Not because he is pro NRA, but because he is a draft dodging piece of shit. When I was a child and into rock magazines, I read more than 1 interview where he bragged about beating the draft. This is not stuff I got off the internet, it is what I remember reading myself in the mid 70's.

[Darren King]

Re: Gun Control

Ted Nugent is a draft dodging scum bucket piece of shit. Not because he is pro NRA, but because he is a draft dodging piece of shit. When I was a child and into rock magazines, I read more than 1 interview where he bragged about beating the draft. This is not stuff I got off the internet, it is what I remember reading myself in the mid 70's.

I too think Ted Nugent is disgusting.

[copiman]

Re: Gun Control

1114[1].jpg

Bet no background check here.

[MR Bill]

Re: Gun Control

Well you are welcome to your opioion about Ted Nugent . Lot's of people tryed to get out of going to Viet Nam. Bill Clinton for one. And he succeeded also. I won't call him a scum bag. He was a horn dog for sure tho.

I have no hard feeling's toward either one of them.

I think we are now beating a dead horse. Lot's has been said about this subject.

Anyhow I saw something in the paper today.

Saw a movie awhile back. It was about a idealistic utopian society where there was hardly any gun violence among the people. Only the police and the army had guns. The name of the movie was Schinder's List.

If you think that could never happen here you are a very gullible person.

[SalesServiceGuy]

Re: Gun Control

I am pro gun control but I would not consider Ted Nugent to be a scum ba g because he dodged the draft. Vietnam is a 40 year old bag of hammers forthe USA. Ted could have been dead in the Mekong Delta, killed by a hollow point bullet bullet fired from an assualt weapon with a 30 round ammo clip commonly used in a war situation just like 2A maintain USA citizens have the right to kill each other in self defence. At least, he is alive today promoting the NRA today. God Bless America!

Of course, A, it is Friday night, B I am drinking beer and C I am baiting all of you gun loving red neck Americans to fire back with both barrels.

[fixthecopier]

Re: Gun Control

Ted Nugent is a draft dodging scum bucket piece of shit. Not because he is pro NRA, but because he is a draft dodging piece of shit. When I was a child and into rock magazines, I read more than 1 interview where he bragged about beating the draft. This is not stuff I got off the internet, it is what I remember reading myself in the mid 70's.

I know of others who did not serve, that is not the whole issue. He boasted of shitting and pissing on himself for days before going to the draft board. Now he acts like a pro America right wing, pro military patriot. Just a couple of his quotes...



Also, using racial slurs to describe African Americans is totally okay if you have black friends.
"I use the word n****r a lot because I hang around with a lot of n****rs, and they use the word n****r, and I tend to use words that communicate," he said.

Yep, seems like just the kind of guy we need for president.

[BLADE]

Re: Gun Control

People who obviously have limited or no knowledge about a subject should educate themselves before expressing an opinion. It's one thing for people to suspect you don't know what you're talking about, it's another thing to open your mouth and prove it.

theres a fair amount of that in this thread, piles of it. Even car tyres have control laws, and food, and consumer protection, and etc...

[fixthecopier]

Re: Gun Control

How much is too much?

I copied and pasted this from...GOP Congressman Suggests Second Amendment Includes Right To Own Nuclear Weapons | The New Civil Rights Movement



A freshman Tea Party GOP Congressman says the Second Amendment allows Americans to own all the weapons the U.S. Armed Services have. So, logically, a nuclear weapon should be included. Rep. Ted Yoho


The Shark TankTea Party Congressman: Citizens Should Have Same Weapons As The Military, writes:

when you read the Second Amendment, is that the militia had the same equipment as the military to protect them against the tyrannical government.

[BLADE]

Re: Gun Control

Saw a movie awhile back. It was about a idealistic utopian society where there was hardly any gun violence among the people. Only the police and the army had guns. The name of the movie was Schinder's List.

If you think that could never happen here you are a very gullible person.

I think you mean the Von Trapp family from 'The Sound of Music'

[Jimbo1]

Re: Gun Control

dang.jpg