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  • SalesServiceGuy
    Field Supervisor

    Site Contributor
    5,000+ Posts
    • Dec 2009
    • 8165

    #466
    Re: Gun Control

    Because 'gun control' is dead.

    Have You Heard the One About Gun Control? | Galanty Miller


    The 'gun control' debate is over. It has been over for a long time.


    Oh, there is still debate about whether or not the planet is 5,000 years old. That debate has been raging on for millions of years. But "whether or not we should have sensible gun regulation in the same way that we regulate every other dangerous thing that causes a lot of death" is no longer a contested issue. It's done. Whew. Honestly, in a way, it kind of feels good. It's a relief. The pressure is off. Now, when a maniac goes on a killing spree, we won't have to waste our time trying to solve the problem. Instead, we can use the time to respectfully mourn the deceased and then go back to playing fantasy football and eating Doritos.


    Do you believe in sensible gun control laws? Well, you lost.


    I don't mean to be sarcastic or snarky. I'm just telling it like it is. I'm realistic. The 'gun control' debate is over. I mean, yeah, you might hear a few liberal whispers here and there. And when the families of victims of gun violence speak out, it's kind of bad PR for politicians to not feign concern for a couple of days. But, generally speaking, the debate is over. The gun culture won. The hyper-violent video game Grand Theft Auto 5 made over a billion dollars in its first three days of release. That's a lot. But I bet the game would've made two billion if it could literally fire bullets.


    The gun debate is dead.

    Now let it rest in peace. Don't call for new laws. Congress ain't passing any new laws. Even the politicians who support some sort of weak gun regulation won't vote for any new laws. They don't want to lose their jobs. I don't blame them. Congressmen have the best job in the world; they get paid a lot of money, their staff does all their work, and they even have their own private subway system. Why blow it by voting your conscience, thinking rationally, or sexting porn stars?


    The 'gun control' debate is done. It's over. And it's not the worst thing in the world. I mean, in all likelihood, you're probably not going to be shot and killed. Statistically, the percentages are in your favor. Besides, the debate had been getting dull. How many times can you listen to the same points being made, over and over and over? Booooring.


    On a personal note...


    Back when the 'gun control' debate was still a "thing," I had mixed feelings. On one hand, I do understand the feeling of safety that a gun provides. If I was alone in my house, at night, and I heard someone trying to break in through the window... honestly, I would want a gun in my hand. However, I wouldn't feel more protected if that gun was a military-style assault rifle that fires off dozens of rounds in a matter of seconds. The only time you would need a weapon like that is if your home is being invaded by a big group of people. And -- trust me on this one -- if your home is being invaded by a big group of people, then it doesn't matter what kind of gun you're holding; you're going to die. Haven't you seen the ending of Scarface? And I have good friends who love their big guns and they pontificate for hours about gun rights. And after awhile, some of their stupid bullsh*t almost makes some sense. (Incidentally, I went to the shooting range with one of my friends last winter. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone else. It was cold, noisy, and there was no snack bar.)



    My point? Back in the day, when America was still discussing the issue of guns, I wasn't a raging anti-gun proponent. I was unbiased. I simply considered the logical need to regulate tools of war. And I was willing to discuss the possibility that our lax gun laws, along with a well-financed & politically-backed & profit-motivated industry, are what led to the millions of illegal guns circulating around the country... and this is what led to the gun-crazed nation that we have become... which then prevented any real gun legislation... which is why the issue is no longer an issue. Whew. It was all just so stressful. Glad it's over.


    And make no mistake -- it's over. Seriously, have you heard any legitimate calls for new gun regulation lately? Yeah, after the recent Navy Yard shooting, California Senator Dianne Feinstein came out with a half-hearted gun control statement. But c'mon! She represents California, not America. California should concern itself with making better movies, not wasting our time with gun talk that not a single person thinks will ever lead to anything. I mean, did you see the Total Recall re-make with Colin Farrell? Ughh.


    The gun violence debate is over. The gun people won. There is no point in beating a dead horse. Let's all get behind the reality we now live in; we're surrounded by millions and millions of guns and pretty much anyone can own any kind of gun -- and as many guns -- as they want. That's reality. Get used to it. There's nothing worse than a sore loser.


    Senator Feinstein said, "Congress must stop shirking its responsibility and resume a thoughtful debate on gun violence in this country. We must do more to stop this endless loss of life." No we don't. We just need to get used to the endless loss of life. Or if you really want to do something, then let's design bullet-proof pants for kids to wear to school or spend more money on psychics who know when the next shooting is going to happen or whatever. But don't waste our time with Congress. Congress isn't going to do anything. Been there, done that.
    And the extinction of the 'gun control' debate comes with other perks. For example, we no longer have to listen to annoying gun-rights advocates refer to the 2nd Amendment. A "well regulated militia"? What does that have to do with modern gun laws? Back when there was still a gun debate, I used to ask, "What if there was no 2nd Amendment? Would you then believe you don't have the right to own a gun? Why or why not? And do your reasons have anything to do with the 2nd Amendment?" But now, these questions are no longer relevant... because the 'gun control' debate is over... thank God. And, also, now that the discussion is a thing of the past, and nobody is taking away your guns, and everyone can just be honest, I can pose the following philosophical question to the President of the National Rifle Association and maybe I'll get a real answer...


    If someone invents a mechanism that attaches to a gun, and it prevents the weapon from firing at a child, even if that's your target and you aim and shoot, would you support a federal law that requires this device to be built into all guns? Or do you consider that to be a violation of your freedom?



    It's a philosophical question.


    Meanwhile...
    The discussion is over. It has been for a while. A political debate is only as valid as its possibilities. And sensible regulation in America is no longer a possibility. Oh well. It's time to move on to something else.

    Comment

    • Kidaver
      Ghoulscout

      500+ Posts
      • Apr 2011
      • 912

      #467
      Re: Gun Control

      The debate will never be over...just pushed down the road to when it will be politically needed to divide people or to be used to take the attention away from some other debate and such....

      This here

      If someone invents a mechanism that attaches to a gun, and it prevents the weapon from firing at a child, even if that's your target and you aim and shoot, would you support a federal law that requires this device to be built into all guns? Or do you consider that to be a violation of your freedom?

      My question: What if someone invented a device to attach to people that prevented them from doing evil things by pain or mind manipulation?

      That is always my biggest issue with this and many other liberal debates. They think and inanimate object is evil when it's the person with that object that makes that decision to act on good or evil intentions. Give an evil person a baseball bat in a roomful of children and see what happens.

      Also where are these military assault rifles that spray dozens of bullets in mere seconds...I sure didn't get one when I was in Iraq....didn't need anything that powerful either....good semi automatic M4 was a good enough rifle there for me....and to be honest there are some local convient stores here in town I wish I had my M4 when I go to them cuz those places are scarier than Iraq was.
      "In a cruel and evil world, being cynical can allow you to get some entertainment out of it."

      Comment

      • Copier Addict
        Aging Tech

        Site Contributor
        10,000+ Posts
        • Jul 2013
        • 14575

        #468
        Re: Gun Control

        Originally posted by Kidaver
        That is always my biggest issue with this and many other liberal debates. They think and inanimate object is evil when it's the person with that object that makes that decision to act on good or evil intentions. Give an evil person a baseball bat in a roomful of children and see what happens.
        But it is pretty tough to kill 26 people from long range in less than five minutes with a baseball bat, don't ya think?

        Comment

        • rthonpm
          Field Supervisor

          2,500+ Posts
          • Aug 2007
          • 2849

          #469
          Re: Gun Control

          This is a long thread and there are some good arguments and some reactionary ones. I don't have a dog in the fight: I don't own a gun, but I know how to use one and I don't begrudge anyone else the right to own a gun so long as they are legally able to do so. My issue with both sides of the gun debate, and really any debate based on a 'right' to do anything, is the level of responsibility that accompanies that right.

          The US constitution gives Americans the right to bear arms, however there are certain responsibilities that come with that right. There are a huge number of gun owners who respect the fact that they possess a weapon, pure and simple that's what a gun is; but if you're going to apply for a CCW, shouldn't you have to demonstrate some degree of knowledge in terms of a weapon? Should there ever be an incident where a civilian with a concealed weapon is in a position to stop a criminal I'd want to know that the person actually knows what they're doing with a gun instead of just trying to be some kind of idiot cowboy. Plus, aren't the bulk of guns used in crimes are stolen from their legal owners because they're not properly secured?

          I agree that there are too many gun laws, and lax enforcement of the ones already on the books; but I also agree that maybe the types of weapons available today is beyond what the average person would need. The NRA doesn't help with adding sense to the debate because they've been co-opted by money and power available by taking hard political stances, which then makes gun control less of a public safety issue and more of a liberal vs conservative issue. The NRA originally was a group for sportsmen and enthusiasts that focused on gun SAFETY, not a fully funded subsidiary of the Republican party. Where's the leadership for gun safety instead of the absolutism that we're left with where every piece of legislation on guns has to be fought tooth and nail?

          I guess like everything else it touches, partisanship destroys any vestige of common sense...

          So my two cents are: too many guns and far too many people irresponsible enough to manage them. Is it the government's job to stop all of the idiots? No, but if we're going to allow guns then let's find a way that we can all agree on to make sure we're pulling the skimmings out of the ownership pool.

          Comment

          • MR Bill
            Senior Tech

            500+ Posts
            • Jan 2010
            • 532

            #470
            Re: Gun Control

            Well the debate is not over but I thought this post had died.

            I was reading a story today about a hiker up in Alaska who came across a Brown bear. The guy made some noise so he would not startle the bear. But the brown bear turned and charged him. The guy had a ASSULT rifle and fired at the charging bear. The bear stopped but then charged again. This guy shot more. 13 shots fired. He then called 911. The wardens found the bear dead. So you say you don't NEED a large cap clip. This guy would be dead and in the bears tummy if he didn't.

            They overtuned the gun ban in Washington DC a few years ago. The guy that brought the suit had been walking with his wife and about 20 guys started following him, saying they were going to kill him and his wife. He turned and showed the 20 scum bags his pistol and they turned and left the area. So this guy wrighting this story is just wrong about a lot of people comeing into your house. That you would be dead anyway. NO you would not. Slimeballs breaking into your house will turn and run. WHO want's to be the first one shot? Volunteers anyone?

            OK, I'm almost done. Another gun free zone. That works everytime doesn't it. Just make any place a gun free zone.
            Look at the pictures of the mall in Kenya. 68 people DEAD. Very sad.

            Comment

            • Kidaver
              Ghoulscout

              500+ Posts
              • Apr 2011
              • 912

              #471
              Re: Gun Control

              The point I'm making is it isn't guns that kill people it's people that kill people....maybe they should pass laws making bombs illegal...or at least limit the amount of ingredients in them....oh wait......
              "In a cruel and evil world, being cynical can allow you to get some entertainment out of it."

              Comment

              • Copier Addict
                Aging Tech

                Site Contributor
                10,000+ Posts
                • Jul 2013
                • 14575

                #472
                Re: Gun Control

                Originally posted by Kidaver
                it isn't guns that kill people it's people that kill people
                Lol. Same old tired reasoning.
                Yes it is true that a gun doesn't kill someone on it's own, but, I have never heard of someone walking into a school or a mall or a movie theatre and open a a bag full of sporting equipment and start beating people with it. "OMG, he has a Sherwood hockey stick!!!!!! Everyone get down!!!"
                Yes the debate may be dead, but, I'm sure we haven't seen the last tragedy where innocent people get killed by some lunatic.

                Comment

                • Kidaver
                  Ghoulscout

                  500+ Posts
                  • Apr 2011
                  • 912

                  #473
                  Re: Gun Control

                  Lunatics have been killing people since the dawn of man, how they have gone about it just changes.....
                  "In a cruel and evil world, being cynical can allow you to get some entertainment out of it."

                  Comment

                  • MR Bill
                    Senior Tech

                    500+ Posts
                    • Jan 2010
                    • 532

                    #474
                    Re: Gun Control

                    Yes, sick people with sick minds alway find a way to kill.

                    Pot Pol?? The killing fields. How that for not having gun bans.

                    Comment

                    • SalesServiceGuy
                      Field Supervisor

                      Site Contributor
                      5,000+ Posts
                      • Dec 2009
                      • 8165

                      #475
                      Re: Gun Control

                      If someone invents a mechanism that attaches to a gun, and it prevents the weapon from firing at a child, even if that's your target and you aim and shoot, would you support a federal law that requires this device to be built into all guns? Or do you consider that to be a violation of your freedom?

                      Comment

                      • Phrag
                        Trusted Tech

                        250+ Posts
                        • Oct 2012
                        • 417

                        #476
                        Re: Gun Control

                        Originally posted by SalesServiceGuy
                        If someone invents a mechanism that attaches to a gun, and it prevents the weapon from firing at a child, even if that's your target and you aim and shoot, would you support a federal law that requires this device to be built into all guns? Or do you consider that to be a violation of your freedom?
                        Hard criminals would start investing in child armies. It wouldn't surprise me.

                        I don't think guns should be banned outright. All that does is create a larger market for weapons smuggling.

                        I live in Australia, and although we have a significantly lower number of mass shootings, and a much smaller homicide rate per capita, I don't think we can really compare Australia and America. Both have very different cultures. Obviously American's love their fire-arms and will fight fiercely for their right to "bear arms."

                        However, in Australia we don't have that constitutional right, nor do I see as many people fighting for the right to bear assault weapons of varying degrees.

                        My only issue with Australia's gun laws is the difficulty in importing and purchasing markers for paintball, and the limit on what accessories can be attached. For instance, magazines can't be attached to markers that look similar to actual rifles, even if it only holds tools.

                        Nevertheless, I think with the crime that is present in America, I think it's fine to carry, or store certain firearms for self defence. In this day and age where Pizza gets to your door quicker than the police, you have to take safety and defence into your own hands.

                        Comment

                        • SalesServiceGuy
                          Field Supervisor

                          Site Contributor
                          5,000+ Posts
                          • Dec 2009
                          • 8165

                          #477
                          Re: Gun Control

                          American gun use is out of control. Shouldn't the world intervene?

                          American gun use is out of control. Shouldn't the world intervene? | Henry Porter | Comment is free | The Observer

                          The death toll from firearms in the US suggests that the country is gripped by civil war

                          The annual toll from firearms in the US is running at 32,000 deaths and climbing, even though the general crime rate is on a downward path (it is 40% lower than in 1980). If this perennial slaughter doesn't qualify for intercession by the UN and all relevant NGOs, it is hard to know what does.

                          To absorb the scale of the mayhem, it's worth trying to guess the death toll of all the wars in American history since the War of Independence began in 1775, and follow that by estimating the number killed by firearms in the US since the day that Robert F. Kennedy was shot in 1968 by a .22 Iver-Johnson handgun, wielded by Sirhan Sirhan. The figures from Congressional Research Service, plus recent statistics from icasualties.org, tell us that from the first casualties in the battle of Lexington to recent operations in Afghanistan, the toll is 1,171,177. By contrast, the number killed by firearms, including suicides, since 1968, according to the Centres for Disease Control and Prevention and the FBI, is 1,384,171.
                          That 212,994 more Americans lost their lives from firearms in the last 45 years than in all wars involving the US is a staggering fact, particularly when you place it in the context of the safety-conscious, "secondary smoke" obsessions that characterise so much of American life.

                          One more figure. There have been fewer than 20 terror-related deaths on American soil since 9/11 and about 364,000 deaths caused by privately owned firearms. If any European nation had such a record and persisted in addressing only the first figure, while ignoring the second, you can bet your last pound that the State Department would be warning against travel to that country and no American would set foot in it without body armour.

                          Comment

                          • fixthecopier
                            ALIEN OVERLORD

                            2,500+ Posts
                            • Apr 2008
                            • 4713

                            #478
                            Re: Gun Control

                            This article in Forbes list a dozen other countries that are considered more dangerous than America because of guns. Americans travel to all of them...unarmed. Maybe it's something in our attitude.


                            Worst Countries For Firearms Related Deaths - Forbes


                            Salesserviceguy, Although I am glad to see you back to revive a thread, again, what point are you going after. You seem to preach and I guess you expect us to see the folly of our ways and pledge to not use guns.

                            Not getting your ass shot in America is sometimes just a matter of using common sense. I see 3 types of gun owners here. The law abiding citizen who keeps one for protection. The law abiding citizen who has one because it makes him feel tough, and the criminal.

                            Here is a recent tale of two idiots...2 Concealed Carry Holders Kill Each Other In Road Rage Incident

                            And here is another...

                            NEWS: School Stops Soccer Game Because of a Man Openly Carrying His Gun....You may have a right to carry a gun, but common fucking sense tells you it doesn't belong in some places.

                            There are 2 handguns,2 rifles and a shotgun in my house. I am lightly armed by some standards.

                            This story happened last week and this week. I only tell it because it can illustrate how making the right decision can keep you from getting shot.


                            about 10 or 11 days ago, I think on a Wednesday, I started hearing the thumps from a stereo system. One turned up too loud, that you can't make out the song, but the beat or bass line is carrying. Not one of those car systems, but a house stereo. My wife could hear it over her tv and fan. The sound did not stop. It went on 24 hours a day and others in the neighborhood could hear it, but we could not tell where it came from. By Friday, we started calling the Sheriffs dept. They were little to no help, saying they couldn't find it. Wife called 5 times last weekend and they never found it. We have concluded that it is coming from a home in the neighborhood behind us, about 3 homes down. Our neighbor hood and the one behind us are ares that 15 years ago were rural, and the lots are large and people put there own homes on them. Not a planned cookie cutter house thing. The one behind us is a little run down and low end in some areas.
                            My wife and I rode around trying to find the source, but can not hear it anywhere from the streets. We get back home and I start walking through the small patch of woods on the other side of my next door neighbors home, and find the source. The music is coming from an old tin roof shack of a garage in the back yard of a home. I see no sign of life. Nobody is about, just music.

                            This is where I start making decisions about guns. I am in the rear of a large yard, of a home with a big boat, four wheeler, an old shack of a garage and a beer bottle hear and there. These are rednecks, and probably proud of it. Odds are they have more guns than I do, and I am a stranger walking up through their back yard. I turn and walk back to my house.

                            We drive over to get the street address, the front has a fence and gate, with beer bottles on the ground and no sign of life. Without the gate, I would go to the front door. The gate tells me to keep out. We go home, my wife calls the sheriff again and gives the address. Still the music plays. When she gets up at 4:30 am to go to work, it still plays. When I go out at 6:00, it has stopped. I am relieved, as my wife is livid and threatening to take matters into her own hands.

                            All week all is quiet. Friday I get home from work, it is playing even louder. Now I have an asshole neighbor and a pissed off wife to fuck up my Friday. I wit til dusk, then I call the sheriff. I get two cars within 15 minutes. I tell the whole story, and give specifics on where it comes from. They leave, I see a spotlight at the home 10 minutes later and the music stops.

                            In a regular neighborhood, I would not hesitate to knock on the door and ask them to turn it down, but haveing lived in the rural south most of my life, common sense told me not to. For all I knew, they could have been cooking meth in that building.

                            my point in telling this, is that I believe that one of the guys in the above news stories may have tried to solve the problem by flashing a gun and confronting the neighbor. This could have got him shot or arrested.

                            During one of my wife's calls to the sheriff, she was ask if guns were involved or had been mentioned, as this is quite common in disputes.

                            My other reason for telling this is that I have some time to kill before I go to moms and cut her grass, and I wanted to rant about the asshole neighbors.
                            The greatest enemy of knowledge isn't ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge. Stephen Hawking

                            Comment

                            • Iowatech
                              Not a service manager

                              2,500+ Posts
                              • Dec 2009
                              • 3930

                              #479
                              Re: Gun Control

                              Originally posted by copier addict
                              Lol. Same old tired reasoning.
                              Yes it is true that a gun doesn't kill someone on it's own, but, I have never heard of someone walking into a school or a mall or a movie theatre and open a a bag full of sporting equipment and start beating people with it. "OMG, he has a Sherwood hockey stick!!!!!! Everyone get down!!!"
                              Yes the debate may be dead, but, I'm sure we haven't seen the last tragedy where innocent people get killed by some lunatic.
                              The reason you don't hear of that is because? No, honestly, why is that?

                              Comment

                              • Phrag
                                Trusted Tech

                                250+ Posts
                                • Oct 2012
                                • 417

                                #480
                                Re: Gun Control

                                Originally posted by fixthecopier

                                This is where I start making decisions about guns. I am in the rear of a large yard, of a home with a big boat, four wheeler, an old shack of a garage and a beer bottle hear and there. These are rednecks, and probably proud of it. Odds are they have more guns than I do, and I am a stranger walking up through their back yard. I turn and walk back to my house.

                                We drive over to get the street address, the front has a fence and gate, with beer bottles on the ground and no sign of life. Without the gate, I would go to the front door. The gate tells me to keep out. We go home, my wife calls the sheriff again and gives the address. Still the music plays. When she gets up at 4:30 am to go to work, it still plays. When I go out at 6:00, it has stopped. I am relieved, as my wife is livid and threatening to take matters into her own hands.
                                That is the type of establishment I wouldn't confront even if it said please don't hesitate to knock. I'm a very cautious individual myself. In Australia, where I live, this isn't much of a problem, as firearms laws are quite strict, and they need to be locked up very securely, stored separate from their ammunition as well.

                                If I lived in America, I think I'd be permanently afraid of being shot for one reason or another.

                                I think we're quite lucky in Australia that gun crime doesn't SEEM to be as pronounced as it is in America, be it illegal acquisition, or turf wars, or random road rage incidents.

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