indentured servants my ass.....

[fixthecopier]

Can't stop laughing at that statement. Have to run now but will be a happy to follow up about later.


And by the way Mr Bill, I read your comment about tattoos I to a room full of heavily tatooed 3rd SFG soilders and their response was the same but I won'twaste a band width on a photo of it.

I didn't want to hijack another thread, so I brought it here.

[fixthecopier]

Re: indentured servants my ass.....

As a follow up, the comment was made in another thread that anyone who has studied the bible would know that most of the slaves were little more than indentured servants. I just can't let it go. First of all, that statement shows that the person who wrote it does not know what an indentured servant is, and second, I give that person credit for swinging a big pair because that is what it would take to try to make slavery seem like a not so bad thing.



As far as the tattoo comment, Maybe i run with a really bad crowd, but just about everyone I know has them and judging people because of tats is just as dumb as judging people because of clothes or hair. Shows a small mind.

As far as the comment made about all the kids growing up without fathers being the fault of the welfare state, well that is just dumb also. When I looked for stats, i found that the country with the highest per cent of 2 parent households is one of the worlds most liberal welfare states. As a matter of fact, most of the countries that beat America are socialist style welfare states. Maybe the answer is sex ed and access to birth control.http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/20...und-the-world/

[Shadow1]

Re: indentured servants my ass.....

I haven't had sufficient time or popcorn to keep up with the explosive number of replies in that thread, so I haven't seen the tattoo comment. I'll take a good look this weekend.

...but the indentured servant comment was mine - and yes, I do swing a big set, though I'm not sure I appreciate your interest in my equipment. (unless you happen to be female with a nice set of a different variety)

The American slave trade consisted of kidnapping African Black people based solely on the color of their skin, and selling them as property. You could kill a slave by the most gruesome of means, and it was of no more consequence than killing a dog (except for the slave's cash value)

In Biblical times, people often sold themselves into slavery, and they were still considered human beings. The slave could expect to be fed and treated decently even if worked hard and lacking in most freedoms - not an ideal situation, but it was a way to keep from starving if you found yourself in bitter circumstances.

Biblical law even commanded that slaves be set free after a certain time, but that the slave could choose to remain with his master if he felt sufficiently well treated - not something that would happen with what we think of as slaves.

[Debs1964]

Re: indentured servants my ass.....

As far as the tattoo comment, Maybe i run with a really bad crowd, but just about everyone I know has them and judging people because of tats is just as dumb as judging people because of clothes or hair. Shows a small mind.

As someone who has several tattoos I find people's discrimination against them to be offensive. I am a law abiding, hard working person who just happens to like body art

[mrwho]

Re: indentured servants my ass.....



What a difference, heh?

[DAG COPIERS & COMPUTERS]

Re: indentured servants my ass.....

I haven't had sufficient time or popcorn to keep up with the explosive number of replies in that thread, so I haven't seen the tattoo comment. I'll take a good look this weekend.

...but the indentured servant comment was mine - and yes, I do swing a big set, though I'm not sure I appreciate your interest in my equipment. (unless you happen to be female with a nice set of a different variety)

The American slave trade consisted of kidnapping African Black people based solely on the color of their skin, and selling them as property. You could kill a slave by the most gruesome of means, and it was of no more consequence than killing a dog (except for the slave's cash value)

In Biblical times, people often sold themselves into slavery, and they were still considered human beings. The slave could expect to be fed and treated decently even if worked hard and lacking in most freedoms - not an ideal situation, but it was a way to keep from starving if you found yourself in bitter circumstances.

Biblical law even commanded that slaves be set free after a certain time, but that the slave could choose to remain with his master if he felt sufficiently well treated - not something that would happen with what we think of as slaves.

As a point of information to those who may not know this bit of history, or a reminder to those who already have the facts: Slavery as practiced in Biblical times....especially in the middle east, was not limited to any particular race or ethnic stock.One's color was not a prerequisite! Neither was one's religious beliefs! The slaves were actually considered 'Assets' by the owners...'a sort of tool for production', a wealth creator and had many of their rights & privileges protected by the laws. They could own and inherit property. Slaves could be acquired through the numerous conquests between the warring nations or trade. Jews, Arabs, Assyrians, Persians, Babylonians etc...generally all those Middle Eastern races experienced or 'suffered' from slavery. Most of the great empires in the middle east such as the Babylonian empire were built on slave labor....[check..The ''Ziggurat or hanging gardens of Babylon, in reign of Nebuchadnezzar''].
Slave trade was introduced in sub-Sahara Africa several centuries later by the Arab slave traders...
about the 17th century as they moved deeper south in search of ivory, salt. With advantage of gun weapons they could raid African villages and capture people and sell to the Europeans...who were actually ignorant of the laws or ways governing the treatment of slaves as practiced in the middle east.

[fixthecopier]

Re: indentured servants my ass.....

First of all I welcome all who are brave enough to discuss religion.

As far as slavery goes, lets see what the bible has for us.


However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

The following passage describes the sickening practice of sex slavery. How can anyone think it is moral to sell your own daughter as a sex slave?

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)



What does the Bible say about beating slaves? It says you can beat both male and female slaves with a rod so hard that as long as they don't die right away you are cleared of any wrong doing.

When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)

You would think that Jesus and the New Testament would have a different view of slavery, but slavery is still approved of in the New Testament, as the following passages show.

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)

Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)

[fixthecopier]

Re: indentured servants my ass.....

As a point of information to those who may not know this bit of history, or a reminder to those who already have the facts: Slavery as practiced in Biblical times....especially in the middle east, was not limited to any particular race or ethnic stock.One's color was not a prerequisite! Neither was one's religious beliefs! The slaves were actually considered 'Assets' by the owners...'a sort of tool for production', a wealth creator and had many of their rights & privileges protected by the laws. They could own and inherit property. Slaves could be acquired through the numerous conquests between the warring nations or trade. Jews, Arabs, Assyrians, Persians, Babylonians etc...generally all those Middle Eastern races experienced or 'suffered' from slavery. Most of the great empires in the middle east such as the Babylonian empire were built on slave labor....[check..The ''Ziggurat or hanging gardens of Babylon, in reign of Nebuchadnezzar''].
Slave trade was introduced in sub-Sahara Africa several centuries later by the Arab slave traders...
about the 17th century as they moved deeper south in search of ivory, salt. With advantage of gun weapons they could raid African villages and capture people and sell to the Europeans...who were actually ignorant of the laws or ways governing the treatment of slaves as practiced in the middle east.

"Tool for production, wealth creator, an asset." Dag, with all due respect, I can picture every white southern plantation owner saying those exact same things in an effort to justify keeping his black slaves.


BTW, a little trivia for you. The first man to give his life for America was a former African slave...Crispus Attucks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[atwageman]

Re: indentured servants my ass.....

My wife makes great sandwiches.

[JR2ALTA]

up to 70% of Africans "kidnapped" for American slavery were already slaves owned by black Africans.

[mrwho]

Re: indentured servants my ass.....

up to 70% of Africans "kidnapped" for American slavery were already slaves owned by black Africans.

So instead of releasing them let's just keep their life miserable.

[DAG COPIERS & COMPUTERS]

Re: indentured servants my ass.....

"Tool for production, wealth creator, an asset." Dag, with all due respect, I can picture every white southern plantation owner saying those exact same things in an effort to justify keeping his black slaves.


BTW, a little trivia for you. The first man to give his life for America was a former African slave...Crispus Attucks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What about the first black man to become president of a superpower nation? You have chosen to deliberately ignore my point that slavery has no color, a slave trader or owner doesn't care whether you are black, yellow, white or pink skinned. The children of Israel (they were not blacks) were enslaved by the Egyptians for 400years. Their slave labor was used to among other things build the Giza pyramids, until Moses liberated them.
As for slavery in the Americas, and your justification through Biblical quotes, was it not the same 'Whiteman' who got concerned, again after reading, studying & understanding the Bible, that all humans are created in the image of GOD AND ARE THEREFORE EQUAL, who started to agitate for slavery to be abolished? Their conscience couldn't allow for the practice to continue.

[DAG COPIERS & COMPUTERS]

Re: indentured servants my ass.....

So instead of releasing them let's just keep their life miserable.

It already too late! They have already started becoming Presidents, Chairmen of 'joint chiefs of staff', secretaries of states etc. You can no longer ignore them. You can't rewind the clock. May be it was in GOD'S master plan for them to be carried into slavery for some more reasons yet to unfold in future!

[mrwho]

Re: indentured servants my ass.....

May be it was in GOD'S master plan for them to be carried into slavery for some more reasons yet to unfold in future!

Pretty shitty god, if you ask me.

Master: "Hey, I'll keep you as my slave, and beat you, humiliate you, make you work for me for free, enslave your brethren, but don't worry, in 200 or 300 years one of you will become president of me!"

Slave: "Hell yeah!"

[Chameleon]

Re: indentured servants my ass.....

First of all I welcome all who are brave enough to discuss religion.

Thanks

but slavery is still approved of

I think you are confusing approval with tolerance. It is one thing to say "you should own slaves" and quite another to say "you may..." Yes the old testament had some crazy stuff, but then there is incredible stories about slaves like Joseph and Moses. I'm not sure if you are trying to paint Christians or Jews as pro slaves, which would kind of be like painting athiests as pro Hitler, so I won't go there. I'll just mention it was christians like William Wilberforce and Lincoln that abolished slavery.

You would think that Jesus and the New Testament would have a different view of slavery

He does: "There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." Gal 3:28