indentured servants my ass.....

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  • Akitu
    Legendary Frost Spec Tech

    Site Contributor
    2,500+ Posts
    • Oct 2010
    • 2595

    #286
    Re: indentured servants my ass.....

    Originally posted by Chameleon
    I guess this is just a hard pill for atheists/evolutionists to swallow: IF you believe there is no God and we evolved, some guy having sex with CHILDREN is not wrong. Morals and religion are inseparable. just happensNOTeveryone
    Now this is the part where I feel the need to throw my hat back in. Morals and religion are separable, in the same way church and state are. There are laws and fundamental morality present in most people. It's agreed upon as a society that killing someone, or harming someone incapable of defending themselves is morally unjust, and therefore there were laws created regarding both of those circumstances. They were not decided upon by any single religion stating it can't or shouldn't be done.

    Animals do not rape, with the exception of dolphins... Intercourse between animals is typically purely for reproductive purposes, with the exception of monkeys who prostitute themselves for bananas and dolphins again, which are the only other mammal known to have sexual intercourse for pleasure and reproduction. The dominant male in the group of creatures gets his pick of who receives his seed. This is known as survival of the fittest, a fundamental part in evolution. Strong traits of the parents are passed on to the offspring for the purpose of improving the species as a whole. Similarly, animals kill with a simplistic notion in mind - survival. When animals kill each other, we view it as a horrible thing simply because as a society we've been taught that killing one's own kind is a great sin and we now view it as morally unjustifiable. Animals view it as thinning out the herd, once again referencing survival of the fittest, if someone gets out of line then their own society deals with it the only way they know how by killing or exiling the offending creature. If animals had the chance to evolve the complex thought processes and communication methods that humans have, I'm sure they similarly would adopt beliefs and other methods to deal with the other animals that don't conform to their morals and laws.

    Christianity likes to praise itself as the only true religion, and with much of the world having molded itself to those beliefs, it's hard to disagree with the statement. However, are you aware that different cultures have completely different beliefs, where a child becomes a man in their eyes much sooner than the 18/19/21 of North America? In other parts of the world, some children are seen as property and can be sold off at will to do whatever with whoever and it's not seen as wrong. Elsewhere, the age of consent is just much lower. We're not advocating N.A.M.B.L.A. here, in our society it's seen as wrong to hurt a child, and where else more than anywhere? Prison. People often forget prisoners are people too, with real lives at one point and often with kids. Do you know why they keep the pedophiles and child murders in a separate part of the prison from the general population? Even prisoners have moral and social codes, kids are strictly off limits, religion has nothing to do with this - it's purely parental instinct to protect their children and knowing instinctively right from wrong. Ultimately, human beings are animals all the same, we've just had the luxury to evolve and now have a developed society.

    To say that without religion, everyone would just be raping and murdering left, right and center is about the furthest from the truth as possible. Speaking to a fundamental anarchist with this statement would have you laughed at so hard it would make your ears bleed. I did mention fundamental anarchy as it refers to society working within its own laws outside of a "big brother" type government, people working with people to make their society work exactly as they see fit, without high paid executive leaders making all the decisions for everyone. I'm not saying this is the approach society should take, merely explaining briefly what the fundamental anarchist is thinking, as opposed to the morons who just cheer "Anarchy!!!" and begin breaking things because they're just jerks. Society will work in its own ways and adopt its own moral code as it sees fit, throwing a book at someone and telling them to worship an invisible sky man does not in itself make for a peaceful loving society. See - The Crusades. More raping and murder than any other time in Christian-based societies, in the name of God, no less. Christian men raping women from other villages because they were seen as heathens, in the name of God... Doesn't that in itself disprove your theory? Imagine what life today would be like had we not had that long dark span in our history with people killing and raping in the name of their God.

    The evolution of man without religion will prove no more harmful, if not less so, than the evolution of man with religion. One side just has a blank cheque to justify their killing, raping and war...
    Cthulhu for president! Why settle for the lesser evil?

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    • blackcat4866
      Master Of The Obvious

      Site Contributor
      10,000+ Posts
      • Jul 2007
      • 22999

      #287
      Re: indentured servants my ass.....

      ***exit stage left.***

      I told you so. =^..^=
      If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
      1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
      2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
      3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
      4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.
      5) You are the person onsite. Only you can make observations.

      blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=

      Comment

      • Chameleon
        Trusted Tech

        100+ Posts
        • Nov 2011
        • 200

        #288
        Re: indentured servants my ass.....

        Originally posted by Akitu
        Morals and religion are separable....There are laws and fundamental morality present in most people.
        Thanks for sharing your opinions. Just where do you think morals come from? Why do you say these laws present in most people? If there is a God, then he created us and has the right to dictate to us what is wrong and right. Mock religion all you want but that is where morals came from. If there is no God then nobody has the right to dictate to anyone what is right or wrong, everyone is on the same moral ground. Might makes right, survival of the fittest, social code is nothing more than wishful thinking. Rape, murder, stealing, these have no meaning to animals, the only reason they mean anything to you is because religion exists. I'll elaborate why evolution/atheism is morally bankrupt. Their social code is based on an opinion, it was agreed upon a few months ago that that Pedophiles are bad. There is legislation that Pedophiles are legit and have rights. Soon society will agree Pedophiles are good. Who is anyone to tell them otherwise? All anyone can say is well in our opinion. They are professionals that get paid studying them and will doubtless produce evidence children are not harmed and who is anyone here to say otherwise? Who are we to force our social code on them?
        The evolution of man without religion will prove no more harmful
        There will be a great deal of children molested by pedophiles in the future that will say otherwise, my friend.
        The chance that higher life forms might have emerged in this way is comparable to the chance that a tornado sweeping through a junkyard might assemble a Boeing 747 from the materials therein. -Fred Hoyle

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        • Akitu
          Legendary Frost Spec Tech

          Site Contributor
          2,500+ Posts
          • Oct 2010
          • 2595

          #289
          Re: indentured servants my ass.....

          Originally posted by Chameleon
          Thanks for sharing your opinions. Just where do you think morals come from? Why do you say these laws present in most people? If there is a God, then he created us and has the right to dictate to us what is wrong and right. Mock religion all you want but that is where morals came from. If there is no God then nobody has the right to dictate to anyone what is right or wrong, everyone is on the same moral ground. Might makes right, survival of the fittest, social code is nothing more than wishful thinking. Rape, murder, stealing, these have no meaning to animals, the only reason they mean anything to you is because religion exists. I'll elaborate why evolution/atheism is morally bankrupt. Their social code is based on an opinion, it was agreed upon a few months ago that that Pedophiles are bad. There is legislation that Pedophiles are legit and have rights. Soon society will agree Pedophiles are good. Who is anyone to tell them otherwise? All anyone can say is well in our opinion. They are professionals that get paid studying them and will doubtless produce evidence children are not harmed and who is anyone here to say otherwise? Who are we to force our social code on them? There will be a great deal of children molested by pedophiles in the future that will say otherwise, my friend.
          Now here is where you begin drawing your own conclusions contrary to what the article you linked in another thread states. Since you're hung up on pedophiles at the moment, let's address that. It was not agreed a few months ago that pedophiles are bad, it's been known for a long time now that an adult who should know better has no right to involve an unwilling and unknowing child in any type of sexual acts, and has not been accepted, nor were they considered good. The legislation you speak of attempted to add an amendment to exclude pedophiles from that same protection, for the above reason I gave of involving a child who doesn't fully comprehend what's going on. Society will not, and presently does not agree that pedophiles are good, this is your own speculation and holds 0 merit. I saw nothing in the article you linked stating that someone said a child is not harmed by pedophilia - please find some valid sources to support this statement before making baseless accusations based on your own speculation.
          On that note - who was recently involved in a rash of child molestation cases? None other than the Catholic church themselves. Granted it wasn't immediately recent, but within the last few years. I think without all the priests touching the little boys, that's a considerable chunk of child molestation cases no longer occurring. Are you saying because they're men of the cloth, it's not pedophilia and a consenting sexual interaction by 2 people? I can guarantee those kids had no idea something awful was happening, and I would even bet my last dollar that those priests were claiming it was God's will that he touch them.

          Morals come from within, not an external sense. When it comes down to it, even the hardest criminal at one point had to make that decision to kill another person, and I can guarantee it wasn't easy and continues to haunt them to this day. Man must overcome his own self to kill another man, why is this? Intrinsic moral characteristics. Killing another person simply isn't in the nature of a normal, sane person. To say that all morals stem from religion is as simplistic as saying all people evolved from a single amoeba eons ago...
          Cthulhu for president! Why settle for the lesser evil?

          Comment

          • Chameleon
            Trusted Tech

            100+ Posts
            • Nov 2011
            • 200

            #290
            Re: indentured servants my ass.....

            , it's been known for a long time now that an adult who should know better has no right to involve an unwilling and unknowing child in any type of sexual acts, and has not been accepted, nor were they considered good.
            Known? Rights? Exactly how did we know this?
            Jerry Sansusky insists they were not hurt and this was a good thing. Who are you to say otherwise?
            Morals come from God. Anything you come up with is an opinion.
            The chance that higher life forms might have emerged in this way is comparable to the chance that a tornado sweeping through a junkyard might assemble a Boeing 747 from the materials therein. -Fred Hoyle

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            • Akitu
              Legendary Frost Spec Tech

              Site Contributor
              2,500+ Posts
              • Oct 2010
              • 2595

              #291
              Re: indentured servants my ass.....

              Originally posted by Chameleon
              Known? Rights? Exactly how did we know this?
              Jerry Sansusky insists they were not hurt and this was a good thing. Who are you to say otherwise?
              Morals come from God. Anything you come up with is an opinion.
              If you're asking that question, you obviously don't understand the gravity of the situation and the misrepresentation of the bill. Are you saying you support Jerry Sansusky? Likewise, him saying they were not hurt and it was a good thing was his opinion, which is presently contrary to the law. The fact you seem to be advocating this inclines me to take my exit stage left as Blackcat and Fix have already done. This thread has finally been derailed with stupidity.
              Cthulhu for president! Why settle for the lesser evil?

              Comment

              • Chameleon
                Trusted Tech

                100+ Posts
                • Nov 2011
                • 200

                #292
                Re: indentured servants my ass.....

                Originally posted by Akitu
                There are laws and fundamental morality present in most people
                Who put those there God or evolution? If the universe is some colossal accident and we are here merely by chance, there is no such thing as morals. There is no difference between shooting a rock and shooting a person. Murder? Who says so? If life is an accident any meaning attached to it is wishful thinking. Which is why I say evolution/atheism is morally bankrupt. I am not saying this to be mean, just being honest. It is your prerogative to create an illusion of meaning if you want to. But an accident has no meaning. Only if life was intentional does it have meaning.
                If animals had the chance to evolve the complex thought processes and communication methods that humans have, I'm sure they similarly would adopt beliefs and other methods to deal with the other animals that don't conform to their morals and laws..
                Wishful thinking. It's nice to know YOU have attached some meaning to adopted some set of values/ethics, whatever. I am not saying everyone is some monster that needs religion to keep them at bay, either. I am saying logically if we are an accident there is no difference between murder and eating.
                not advocating N.A.M.B.L.A.
                What will you say when society does? Yes, life is an accident but the meaning I attach to it more relevant than the meaning you attach to it?
                The chance that higher life forms might have emerged in this way is comparable to the chance that a tornado sweeping through a junkyard might assemble a Boeing 747 from the materials therein. -Fred Hoyle

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