Bizhub 363 toner not adhering

[phalemi24]

Hello everyone!

I have a problem with one of my copiers, after i rebuild the fuser unit and changed the developer.
When i start the copier, in the morning, on the first prints/copies i make, the toner is not adhering right. What i noticed is if i print 1-2 gradation pattern test page, everything gets back to normal.
On the fuser unit i changed the upper fuser roller and pressure roller with aftermarket parts, but did not change thermistors, they looked good to me.
I also changed the fusing temperature to +10, still same.
Should i also change the thermistors or what could be the problem to this unit?

Regards!

[allan]

Re: Bizhub 363 toner not adhering

Did you install the springs and other parts in the fuser correctly?
Crappy toner will do that...

[phalemi24]

Re: Bizhub 363 toner not adhering

Yes, i installed them correctly. Could it be that the parts i installed were not such good quality?
Could bad thermistor generate this kind of fault?

[femaster]

Re: Bizhub 363 toner not adhering

Yes, i installed them correctly. Could it be that the parts i installed were not such good quality?
Could bad thermistor generate this kind of fault?

This is most likely the case. My company is buys crap parts from China to rebuild these units, and us techs that are stuck rebuilding and installing these things have nothing but problems. Generally if we just replace the upper roller, and set the temp to +10, we are OK with LEF, but SEF still won't stick. We've never had luck with aftermarket lower rollers, those seem to be a lost cause.

We've gone through a number of revisions (experiments) to try and get these junk parts to work, and all of our success has had to do with increasing the pressure between the two rollers. Our first few experiments had too much pressure and proved detrimental to the rollers. Ended up with LOTS of torn uppers from too much tension.

I believe we have finally found a happy middle ground between increased pressure and not killing the rollers. We have been quite successful with threading a screw into the metal frame (frame, not tension arm) in the slot where the spring attaches. This takes up a little more of the space so the anchor point of the spring is further back and increases the pressure. We use the same type of screw that is used to hold the end caps onto the fuser, (course thread with wide head). I could probably get you a picture of it tomorrow when I'm at the office and add it to this thread.

My only concern is that this might not help you out because you have the generic lower roller in there. As I stated earlier, we have never had luck with them. Maybe they are too soft or something, not sure, but they just don't work.

[copyman]

Re: Bizhub 363 toner not adhering

Like others have said

1) aftermarket toner

2) aftermarket rollers

3) always change thermistors, toner build up on thermistors is what causes the cuts in UFR to begin with. Don't even try to clean them, before you get the baked on toner off you will destroy the film on thermistors! So automatically change with new UFR. I use the old bushings & bearings and get at least 2 lifes out of LFR. Some customers are using aftermarket toner and I up the temp +10.

Think I heard someone on this forum saying a lot of his Biz 223 series fuser lamps were going bad or getting weak. He was asking to buy used lamps as parts aren't sold for the fuser as you know.

The best aftermarket UFR I've used to date is from a member on this forum, Hans from Germany. I get them from someone he sells to here in USA. Nice hard coating. Like that frying pan commerical where they use an electric mixer on the pan surface. Ha-ha

[femaster]

Re: Bizhub 363 toner not adhering

copyman,

Unfortunately, I don't have a say in what the company buys, so, aftermarket garbage is what we get to deal with. And yes, they buy the generic toner as well. The increase in pressure has helped us deal with this generic garbage. It's sad when a tech has to hack the OEM design to make the generic crap work, but such is the life we lead here.

We rarely replace the thermistors as when the fuser receives it's very first rebuild, we gently clean and then apply teflon (PTFE) film tape to them, which then keeps them clean. During the next rebuild we remove the tape and reapply fresh. Some of these fusing units have been through 6+ rebuilds, with pretty much the only part ever getting replaced being the upper roller. Bearings and bushings get high temp grease applied and they stay nice and quiet.

And yes, I can confirm that the bulbs in these are VERY poor and frequently burn out. It's gotten to the point where we are scavenging and splicing in the 200/250/350 bulbs as they last forever. Splice them into the harness of the 363 fuser and swap out the bulb holder brackets (they fit perfectly in the 363 fuser body). Just have to make sure that you have the wiring correct for the upper and lower bulbs. They have to be wired to the correct upper and lower bulb connection on the original harness, otherwise you end up with fuser service codes.

[femaster]

Re: Bizhub 363 toner not adhering

Yes, i installed them correctly. Could it be that the parts i installed were not such good quality?
Could bad thermistor generate this kind of fault?

Sorry it took so long for me to get back with the picture. Here is a picture of what I was talking about with the screw and the spring. You will need to insert the spring and have it turned to the back side of the fusing framework so it's out of the way when you install the screw. You have to install the spring first, as you will never get it in there once the screw is in. Then just rotate it towards the front and attach it to the tension arm.

6830.jpg

[Woxner]

Re: Bizhub 363 toner not adhering

easy way to clean thermisters is to use a highlighter marker. its takes the toner off real easy

[allan]

Re: Bizhub 363 toner not adhering

The aftermarket thermistors i get is better than the OEM stuff and does not scratch the rollers.
Been using aftermarket uppers, lowers and picker-pawl for to long now never needed any modification.
Even if the lower looks like a raisin it still works ok, so i almost never change them out with no issues.
So not sure where you guys get this out of spec stuff from.

Bad toner caused this issue before. Where i had to vacuum out the hoppers and run the toner out of the developer on dozens of machines.
Toner does not fuse properly even with increased heat.

[allan]

Re: Bizhub 363 toner not adhering

easy way to clean thermisters is to use a highlighter marker. its takes the toner off real easy

Will give that a shot thanks.

[Copier repairman]

Re: Bizhub 363 toner not adhering

1. Bad thermistor.
2. No pressure between heater roller and press roller.
3. One side of heater lamp is broken.
4. The power unit failure.

[phalemi24]

Re: Bizhub 363 toner not adhering

Thanks everyone for everything! I will try to install the screw in the fuser, hope this will help.

Sorry it took so long for me to get back with the picture. Here is a picture of what I was talking about with the screw and the spring. You will need to insert the spring and have it turned to the back side of the fusing framework so it's out of the way when you install the screw. You have to install the spring first, as you will never get it in there once the screw is in. Then just rotate it towards the front and attach it to the tension arm.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]44921[/ATTACH]

Thank you for the picture!

[femaster]

Re: Bizhub 363 toner not adhering

Thanks everyone for everything! I will try to install the screw in the fuser, hope this will help.
Thank you for the picture!

It should be obvious, but I'll say it anyway ... make sure you do the same to both sides to keep the pressure even.

[Don N.]

Re: Bizhub 363 toner not adhering

From the original post.. You said problem is only when first used. So maybe one or both of the lamps have leaked out some of the halogen gas and are weak, but still have continuity, so they are slow to heat on first use. Watch for multiple C3421, C3423 codes in service history... Cold lamps from startup. After the press roller gets fully hot, it will work ok until it goes to energy save or the next morning. I have a couple of customers that occasionally have cold offset in the morning. I blame the lamps. If they don't want to buy another fuser, I tell them just open & close the door after warmup, or run 2-3 blanks first. They're fine all day then unless it's really cold and it goes completely room temp. Swap the fuser to test.

Can't be aftermarket toner bc you changed DV. The initial toner is OEM for at least the first 20-50 pages or so... if you used OEM DV. We always use OEM DV.

We love the rollers our good friend from Germany has. They outlast the OEM at least 2-3 times as long. The roller or coating must be a bit thicker, bc we increase temp +5, sometimes +10 degrees due to cold offset. 90% of all our 3 series are running his UFR for years now, with some with oem but 90% use aftermarket toner.
We re-use the oem press rollers at least 2 rebuilds.

Almost started splicing bh200/250/350 lamps as mentioned, but for now enough are being traded in
We made friends with a KMBS dealer tech who was pitching used fusers whenever the UFR is worn! KMBS promotes recycling...

[Hansoon]

Re: Bizhub 363 toner not adhering

We love the rollers our good friend from Germany has.

Hans