Konica Minolta bizhub C360 - Paper Jam 11-01

[joaopauloooo]

Hello,

I'm having an issue with a C360 where I get the jam code 11-01 in tray 1, 3 and 4 every time I try to print, only tray 2 works great.
The paper stops at the separation roller, all rollers are new and I cleaned all sensors. I always use originals.
I removed all trays and cleaned, everything looks good.
How can I solve this?

Attached you can see where the paper stops in tray 1.
20200908_182904.jpg

[allan]

Re: Konica Minolta bizhub C360 - Paper Jam 11-01

In that shot i can't see the rest of the paper stack as if the paper lift plate has dropped.
Things to look at are the one way clutches the paper feed clutches the sensor holders at the back of the machine and the lift motors.
Then there is the torque limiter that can go stiff.
Also the tray plates.

Its common for the sensor holders to break, paper to get stuck behind the tray and for the trays not to close in place properly.


If it has tray 3 and 4 option installed then its driven straight by a motor and no feed clutches.

[escalante]

Re: Konica Minolta bizhub C360 - Paper Jam 11-01

This I found in a troubleshooting guide for the Bizhub C452.
I hope it serves as a guide

[Synthohol]

Re: Konica Minolta bizhub C360 - Paper Jam 11-01

its the one-ways and burnished shafts. almost almost always.

[femaster]

Re: Konica Minolta bizhub C360 - Paper Jam 11-01

its the one-ways and burnished shafts. almost almost always.

I'll second that statement. With the way the edge of the paper in bunched up against the feed tire, it looks like the pickup tire did it's job but the feed tire didn't turn because the oneway is slipping on the shaft. Also take into consideration that with a slipping oneway, it's probably time for tires as well, unless the tires were replaced without cleaning the oneways and scuffing the shafts, which is something should be done at every tire change.

[HOSTAKI]

Re: Konica Minolta bizhub C360 - Paper Jam 11-01

I am facing the same problem on a Bizhub C280. I took out the paper feed units 1 & 2 to clean and inspect.
The clutches where found to be working (applied 24V and none of them sliped) so what could be the next to check?

I have also downloaded the service manual (which says its for Bizhub C360/C280/C220) to have a good look but I cannot find the exploded parts diagram of the C280 like this :
Parts Catalog > Konica-Minolta > bizhub C652 > page 39
which is the closest I can find and resembles mostly to what I have taken out of the C280.

And a pic of what I have in hand cannot be uploaded ...yet ! Maybe its too big .

I'd really like to know whats the failing oneways (Synthohol mentioned) pointed in a parts diagram.
Thank you

[mike_hartung]

Re: Konica Minolta bizhub C360 - Paper Jam 11-01

I am facing the same problem on a Bizhub C280. I took out the paper feed units 1 & 2 to clean and inspect.
The clutches where found to be working (applied 24V and none of them sliped) so what could be the next to check?

I have also downloaded the service manual (which says its for Bizhub C360/C280/C220) to have a good look but I cannot find the exploded parts diagram of the C280 like this :
Parts Catalog > Konica-Minolta > bizhub C652 > page 39
which is the closest I can find and resembles mostly to what I have taken out of the C280.

And a pic of what I have in hand cannot be uploaded ...yet ! Maybe its too big .

I'd really like to know whats the failing oneways (Synthohol mentioned) pointed in a parts diagram.
Thank you

Talking about the one way feed bearings right next to the pickup roller and the feed roller. They are called feed clutches in the konica minolta parts book. They fail quite often. Replacing these one-way feed bearing clutches and cleaning the shaft should solve your problem.

[ferro10]

Re: Konica Minolta bizhub C360 - Paper Jam 11-01

I'll second that statement. With the way the edge of the paper in bunched up against the feed tire, it looks like the pickup tire did it's job but the feed tire didn't turn because the oneway is slipping on the shaft. Also take into consideration that with a slipping oneway, it's probably time for tires as well, unless the tires were replaced without cleaning the oneways and scuffing the shafts, which is something should be done at every tire change.

can you explain to me why scratches the auction? And how?

I usually clean the auction and bearings without scratching anything and works perfectly.

[allan]

Re: Konica Minolta bizhub C360 - Paper Jam 11-01

can you explain to me why scratches the auction? And how?

I usually clean the auction and bearings without scratching anything and works perfectly.

The one way bearings polishes the shafts to a mirror finish. On a smooth surface like that the needle rollers in the one way bearing(clutch) simply does not grip and slips on the polished surface.

You will see the smooth area under the bearing next to the feed and pickup rollers. You can test them by hand to check if they slip but its not a reliable method just try that until you get one that slips just to proof it to yourself.

The guys use a file or some sand paper to remove the smooth surface to give the bearing something to catch on to. See that some guys will over do it and sand away the surface until the shaft becomes to thin!

I take a carpet knife and scribe four nice deep lines perpendicular to the shaft. You will hear the bearings needles jump if you turn them by hand. I do this once and no need to do it ever again. I never change them out with new ones.

The magnetic feed clutches does fail around 500K. I sometimes open and clean them but its a waste of time but does get you out of trouble until you can return with a replacement. If its a machine far from the shop i will take out the bypass tray clutch and strip out and change the clutch plates with the feed tray clutch. That is if they don't use the manual tray.

[blackcat4866]

Re: Konica Minolta bizhub C360 - Paper Jam 11-01

I can't pass the opportunity to disagree with these fine folks.

I NEVER damage the shaft further. Most of the time cleaning and adding light oil make the one-way bearings work properly. If it still slips the bearing and/or the shaft must be replaced. Damaging the shaft further will not restore the shaft to it's original size and condition. =^..^=

[allan]

Re: Konica Minolta bizhub C360 - Paper Jam 11-01

I can't pass the opportunity to disagree with these fine folks.

I NEVER damage the shaft further. Most of the time cleaning and adding light oil make the one-way bearings work properly. If it still slips the bearing and/or the shaft must be replaced. Damaging the shaft further will not restore the shaft to it's original size and condition. =^..^=

Yes that will be affordable to do but the shaft only in my experience. Don't get it often that a clutch will fail before 250K. Found that my method works ok.

Those one way clutches last forever.

[mike_hartung]

Re: Konica Minolta bizhub C360 - Paper Jam 11-01

I can't pass the opportunity to disagree with these fine folks.

I NEVER damage the shaft further. Most of the time cleaning and adding light oil make the one-way bearings work properly. If it still slips the bearing and/or the shaft must be replaced. Damaging the shaft further will not restore the shaft to it's original size and condition. =^..^=

I agree I never would damage the shaft. As long as there are no circular grooves worn in the shaft I would just clean it and apply one small drop of oil where the bearings ride is all that is needed. If the shaft shows wear (grooves felt with a fingernail) I would replace it but this takes 400-500 thousand copies with normal wear. You can use a scotch bright as a last resort but only in the rotating direction. Then come back later to replace the shaft. I always replace the one way clutches when ever I replace a roller and I hardly ever have jamming calls.

[Synthohol]

Re: Konica Minolta bizhub C360 - Paper Jam 11-01

The following is my personal POV and experience and in no way is intended to cause controversy with conflicting views from other members

Scuffing the shafts where the bearing ride is done the same direction as the shift from end to end.
Use a 3m scotch Brite or emery cloth just enough to get rid of the mirror finish.
I have never in 23 years heard of using oil on them as the last thing I want is lubrication where I need good grip by the needle bearings.
I don't understand why a lubricant is needed for grip. I scuff the shafts, soak the one-ways in IPA and clean with a rag and a blast with a can of air to dry.
Unless the shaft is worn enough that there is a noticeable 'divots where the bearings ride the method I use has worked literally thousands of times.
Scuffing the burnished shaft in the same direction the rollers turn also does not make sense to me as that will cause the needles to only ride the high spots of the surface instead of better lateral contact.

All you can do is listen to all the advices offered and make up your mind which way to go.
Trial and error will help you form a routine to handle procedures like this.

Short 'for instance'...

I recently watched another tech starting to remove a fuser to replace a t-belt on a 4 series. I laughed out loud. He said it's the only way the belt will come out. I then showed him the 1 stupid screw on the upper guide plate on the t-belt. Removed guide and now the belt comes in and out without obstruction or extra work removing the fuser.

Now it's the only way he does it.
But he had to perform it both ways and made his decision to try it the less laborious way and it all worked out
Good luck and happy trials

[allan]

Re: Konica Minolta bizhub C360 - Paper Jam 11-01

I don't understand why a lubricant is needed for grip. I scuff the shafts, soak the one-ways in IPA and clean with a rag and a blast with a can of air to dry.

The springs that push the needle bearings out can get sticky. Paper dust i guess. Using IPA or even WD-40 flushes out the muck buildup in there. Also will not use oil in there but get away using WD-40.

Like my method cutting grooves into the shaft bumps the needle bearings and the springs making sure they don't get stuck over time.

One of the manager i worked under insited that i use spray oil on the magnetic clutches!! Tries it on a Ricoh 3025. Instant regret. Fixed it buy soaking them in IPA.

Watched a guy using yellow toner to prime out of the box color IU's....

[mike_hartung]

Re: Konica Minolta bizhub C360 - Paper Jam 11-01

The following is my personal POV and experience and in no way is intended to cause controversy with conflicting views from other members

Scuffing the shafts where the bearing ride is done the same direction as the shift from end to end.
Use a 3m scotch Brite or emery cloth just enough to get rid of the mirror finish.
I have never in 23 years heard of using oil on them as the last thing I want is lubrication where I need good grip by the needle bearings.
I don't understand why a lubricant is needed for grip. I scuff the shafts, soak the one-ways in IPA and clean with a rag and a blast with a can of air to dry.
Unless the shaft is worn enough that there is a noticeable 'divots where the bearings ride the method I use has worked literally thousands of times.
Scuffing the burnished shaft in the same direction the rollers turn also does not make sense to me as that will cause the needles to only ride the high spots of the surface instead of better lateral contact.

All you can do is listen to all the advices offered and make up your mind which way to go.
Trial and error will help you form a routine to handle procedures like this.

Short 'for instance'...

I recently watched another tech starting to remove a fuser to replace a t-belt on a 4 series. I laughed out loud. He said it's the only way the belt will come out. I then showed him the 1 stupid screw on the upper guide plate on the t-belt. Removed guide and now the belt comes in and out without obstruction or extra work removing the fuser.

Now it's the only way he does it.
But he had to perform it both ways and made his decision to try it the less laborious way and it all worked out
Good luck and happy trials

Yes the needle bearings must move slightly in and out. Turn the bearing one direction they move away from the shaft to allow rotation. Turn the other direction and they move toward the shaft to grip it. This movement of the needle bearings gets sluggish after dust, metal particles, and dirt get up in there. They don't move toward the shaft freely enough so you get a loss of grip. if you are reusing the same one way clutches by all means clean them with a solvent or WD-40 to get the crud out. Even soak a Q-tip and clean them out. I don't clean them unless I have to. I rather replace the one-way bearing clutches if I even suspect they are failing. I use one small drop of oil to lubricate the needle bearings to keep them moving in and out freely. Keeping the needle bearings moving freely is the most important way to keep them gripping the shaft as long as the shaft if in good shape. Grooving the shaft in the opposite direction of rotation only causes the needle bearings to jump up and down as they rotate accelerating wear greatly in my opinion. I have been working with one way bearings for 45 years and I think I know what works.