c308 no power (bad PSU?)

[Elmojo]

No worries, I'll do a little more research on this end. They're in the same boat. They don't need to be able to run copy jobs in the dark, they just need it mostly to function as a line conditioner, since they get dips and spikes in their line voltage almost constantly. I've put a meter on a wall socket and watched the unloaded voltage swing from ~96v to over 130v in the space of less than a minute. I have no idea why any equipment in that office survives the weekend. lol

[copyman]

Oh man, don't tell me that! lol
That actually does seem feasible, since they have notoriously nasty power in that building, and there were storms with surge events not long prior to this latest failure.
Previously, that same machine lost the ethernet port on the MFPB, and I had to 'convert' it to USB in order to get them back running. I won't be surprised if you're correct, and it ends up needing a new main board. If that's the case, I'll either get a refurb'd one from Hytec, or just suggest that they call it scrapped and buy another used machine locally. There's a c368 available for around $2k with very low hours, but it's almost 6hrs from me. I'd rather not drive that far if I can help it.
We'll see what happens when this new DCPU arrives, I guess.

I think you are on the right path with DCPS. I've replaced a few of them on 8 series and maybe one on 4 series.

[Elmojo]

Well...crap.
I replaced the DCPU today, and it did NOT fix the issue, as suspected by Slammers.
I tested for voltages using the Svc Man, and got only the 5v, not the 24v at the specified points. Also, no lights on the MFB.
According to you guys, and the troubleshooting steps in the manual, that means it's likely a bad MFB.

I have a lead on a low-click C308 that I can get delivered on Monday, so I think that's what my client/boss wants to do.

That being said, do you fine folks think it's worth trying to have Hytec fix the MFB, or just scrap this thing?

[femaster]

Oh man, don't tell me that! lol
That actually does seem feasible, since they have notoriously nasty power in that building, and there were storms with surge events not long prior to this latest failure.
Previously, that same machine lost the ethernet port on the MFPB, and I had to 'convert' it to USB in order to get them back running. I won't be surprised if you're correct, and it ends up needing a new main board. If that's the case, I'll either get a refurb'd one from Hytec, or just suggest that they call it scrapped and buy another used machine locally. There's a c368 available for around $2k with very low hours, but it's almost 6hrs from me. I'd rather not drive that far if I can help it.
We'll see what happens when this new DCPU arrives, I guess.

No matter what the problem happens to be, the customer's insurance should be covering the cost of repair or replacement, especially if there are other things in the building that were taken out at around the same time from storms in the area.

For us, even if the machine is under a maintenance contract, acts of nature are not covered my our contracts. Those are billable to the customer, who can either decide to pay for it out of pocket or file a claim with their insurance company.

[Elmojo]

They rarely, if ever, file claims on their insurance. I think the deductible is high, or maybe they don't want the premium to go up. They also are just in the habit of handling their own problems, which I appreciate. This is a really good company. Best folks I've ever worked with. They have treated me really well, so I do what I can to help them.

[Elmojo]

Okay, update....
Since replacing the DCPU didn't fix the problem, the client decided to just replace the machine. We found a used one with a local dealer with only like 40k on the clock for a decent price, and they got it installed.
They let me have the broken C308 for taking it, so now I plan to attempt to repair it. If I'm successful, I'll swap it for my faithful 364e, and finally have color.
Here's my Q: Looking at the svc manual, under the section about replacing the MCPB, it warns the following...MFPB Warning.jpg
What am I getting myself into? If I get an advance board swap from Hytec, which is my intent, how much of a headache will it be to get the machine to recognize the 'new' board?
Do I follow the instructions in the Svc Manual, or will that brick the machine? Do I also have to replace the eMMC/EEPROM(s)?

This will be my first time attempting a repair of this level of detail.
I have nothing to lose, other than the cost of the parts, but I'd really like to have some idea of whether I'm in over my head before jumping in.

[femaster]

Okay, update....
Since replacing the DCPU didn't fix the problem, the client decided to just replace the machine. We found a used one with a local dealer with only like 40k on the clock for a decent price, and they got it installed.
They let me have the broken C308 for taking it, so now I plan to attempt to repair it. If I'm successful, I'll swap it for my faithful 364e, and finally have color.
Here's my Q: Looking at the svc manual, under the section about replacing the MCPB, it warns the following...MFPB Warning.jpg
What am I getting myself into? If I get an advance board swap from Hytec, which is my intent, how much of a headache will it be to get the machine to recognize the 'new' board?
Do I follow the instructions in the Svc Manual, or will that brick the machine? Do I also have to replace the eMMC/EEPROM(s)?

This will be my first time attempting a repair of this level of detail.
I have nothing to lose, other than the cost of the parts, but I'd really like to have some idea of whether I'm in over my head before jumping in.

Below is our procedure for installing used MFPBs in the 4e and newer series. The procedure Is untested on the 7-series and the larger body machines like the 654e, 808, C659, etc. If you are getting a board from Hytec, it should be pretty straight forward. The 8-series machines do have two chips on the right half of the board that you have to make sure you move over from the original in either case (used or repaired).

----------------
When replacing the MFPB some settings can be lost. In the service manual it talks about using only new SSDs and new MFP (or “cleaned”) boards. To get around this restriction we can perform the following steps.

Please note, on 0i and 1i copiers this process only applies if replacing the CPU daughter board. The large main board in the back of the copier contains no settings data.

1. If the [broken] copier still boots, enter service mode. Hit stop 0 clear. Perform a memory data backup. This will write the NVRAM data to the SSD. If the copier can't boot or has odd setting issues, the last backup may still exist on the SSD. Depending on your situation it may not be advisable to create another. It automatically creates the backup hourly.
2. Remove the MFPB [from the broken machine].
3. Replace the MFPB with another. Be [sure] to keep track of parts from each copier. The goal is to have the SSD, NVRAM, EEPROMs, and HDD from the chassis stay with the chassis. Only change the MFPB itself.
4. BEFORE STARTING THE COPIER FOR THE FIRST TIME load the reset tool. Make sure you get the “Data Initialization complete” screen. This wipes out the data from the replacement MFPB.
5. If the replacement board is from another model, [you] will need to change the “machine” and “type” settings. Start the copier off the latest firmware updater [USB]. Then using the service manual set the correct machine and type. Once the machine and type are set, power off the copier.
6. Allow the copier to boot normally and select “recover data” when prompted. This will restore all settings and meters.
7. Verify restored settings are valid. When older copiers (4 and 4e series) have dead batteries, corrupt data can be included in the backup. If any settings are not as intended, set according to [your normal setup procedure].

-----------------

It is possible that other situations might creep up, but that is the general procedure we follow and have very few issues reusing used boards.

[Elmojo]

Thank you so much femaster! That helps a lot, but brings up a few questions, please...
1) Can you explain a bit more about "load the reset tool"? I'm not familiar with this process. Is it outlined in the SM?
2) How will I know if the board came from another model? I'm hoping not, but is that something I need to know before I boot for the first time, or will it tell me after I install it, and I can fix it then if it's not correctly recognized as a C308, or am I borked if I don't catch it first?
3) Being that this is an 8-series (C308), it sounds like I may have a little easier time, as long as I just swap over the 'new' MFPB, and make sure to bring over the EEPROMS from the old board as well, and the SDD/HDD also. IS this correct, or am I being overly optimistic?

[femaster]

Thank you so much femaster! That helps a lot, but brings up a few questions, please...
1) Can you explain a bit more about "load the reset tool"? I'm not familiar with this process. Is it outlined in the SM?
2) How will I know if the board came from another model? I'm hoping not, but is that something I need to know before I boot for the first time, or will it tell me after I install it, and I can fix it then if it's not correctly recognized as a C308, or am I borked if I don't catch it first?
3) Being that this is an 8-series (C308), it sounds like I may have a little easier time, as long as I just swap over the 'new' MFPB, and make sure to bring over the EEPROMS from the old board as well, and the SDD/HDD also. IS this correct, or am I being overly optimistic?

Just a note here, this is the procedure for a used board pulled from another copier. If you are buying through Hytech, you should not need to do all this, especially using the reset tool. From Hytech, I'd think that you should be able to swap all the parts from the original board onto the replacement board and start from step 5 in the above procedure, verifying the machine type is set correctly.

To answer your questions:
1) That would be the Data Initialization Reset Tool, file name "a789be.tar". It's not readily available through the KM tech website, so if you do not already have a copy of it, search in the group for that name and there should be a number of threads that come up. Someone should be able to help you acquire it. It is booted just like a firmware USB, but does not have a prompt when booted. It basically clears out everything in a copier, so should be used with caution!
2) I'm not sure what state boards come from when bought from Hytech. I would hope that they would be a cleared state that doesn't a machine type set at all. The procedure to set the machine type (and what the settings should be based on your model) can be found in the service manual. It is done from the firmware update screen when booting off a firmware USB stick. Just to be on the safe side, I'd boot to a firmware stick anyway after the reset tool. You can then see what the current setting is and change it if necessary.
3) That should be all that you need to do, provided all the previous steps were successful. It's likely that the machine could reboot itself a few times when you finally officially power it up for the first time, but eventually it will come to a screen (it might show a service code) and a button that says, "Recover Data". Select that and the copier should load the data that is backed up on the SSD and prompt you to reboot.

You will likely need to go through the settings, as there is a possibility that some things might not be correct. Possibly need to "install" the HDD in service mode, maybe select the type of ADF that is attached, etc.

[Elmojo]

1) Cool, I'll look into that, thanks!
2) I would hope so as well. I'll ask them before I order. I appreciate the heads up. I wouldn't have thought to ask. In regards to the firmware USB drive... this sounds like something I can handle, but isn't a procedure I've done before. I'll do a little searching to see if I can find anything on it, but if you are aware of a good, clear resource that describes the process, I'd appreciate a link.
3) Thanks, I'll watch for that...

[copyman]

Just a note here, this is the procedure for a used board pulled from another copier. If you are buying through Hytech, you should not need to do all this, especially using the reset tool. From Hytech, I'd think that you should be able to swap all the parts from the original board onto the replacement board and start from step 5 in the above procedure, verifying the machine type is set correctly.

To answer your questions:
1) That would be the Data Initialization Reset Tool, file name "a789be.tar". It's not readily available through the KM tech website, so if you do not already have a copy of it, search in the group for that name and there should be a number of threads that come up. Someone should be able to help you acquire it. It is booted just like a firmware USB, but does not have a prompt when booted. It basically clears out everything in a copier, so should be used with caution!
2) I'm not sure what state boards come from when bought from Hytech. I would hope that they would be a cleared state that doesn't a machine type set at all. The procedure to set the machine type (and what the settings should be based on your model) can be found in the service manual. It is done from the firmware update screen when booting off a firmware USB stick. Just to be on the safe side, I'd boot to a firmware stick anyway after the reset tool. You can then see what the current setting is and change it if necessary.
3) That should be all that you need to do, provided all the previous steps were successful. It's likely that the machine could reboot itself a few times when you finally officially power it up for the first time, but eventually it will come to a screen (it might show a service code) and a button that says, "Recover Data". Select that and the copier should load the data that is backed up on the SSD and prompt you to reboot.

You will likely need to go through the settings, as there is a possibility that some things might not be correct. Possibly need to "install" the HDD in service mode, maybe select the type of ADF that is attached, etc.

Very nice of you to take the time to post a good and thorough explanation of using the reset tool. I have the procedure from bulletins & Hytec documents that came with "cleansed" boards but this will surely help others.

I would never buy a board without first trying reset tool!

[Elmojo]

I would never buy a board without first trying reset tool!

I'd love to try it, but the machine is stone dead. Is there a way to interface with the board directly, even when the machine won't power on at all?
If so, I'd love to give that a try.

[copyman]

I went back and read all the posts and see machine has no power. Unfortunately machine has to have power for any type of reset. If you are sure the DCPU you swapped was good than I would send the MFP to Hytec for "repair". No charge if not repairable and I would then use machine for parts. Saves a lot of hassle if you know board is not repairable. If you send unrepairable board back with advance exchange you will be charged extra $238. Add that $238 to cost of the advance exchange board which is $375. I can buy C308's for around $600.

[Elmojo]

I went back and read all the posts and see machine has no power. Unfortunately machine has to have power for any type of reset. If you are sure the DCPU you swapped was good than I would send the MFP to Hytec for "repair". No charge if not repairable and I would then use machine for parts. Saves a lot of hassle if you know board is not repairable. If you send unrepairable board back with advance exchange you will be charged extra $238. Add that $238 to cost of the advance exchange board which is $375. I can buy C308's for around $600.

That's interesting, since a very experienced local tech advised me to never send anything to Hytec for repair, since they always flag it as "unrepairable", which means you end up having to buy a new one. Now I'm stuck and don't know what to do. I wasn't aware that I'd be charged if they couldn't repair my old board. That doesn't seem fair. How would I know if it's repairable or not? That should be on them as the experts. They are taking a risk when they take in boards as exchange. Some will be fixable, some not. That's just business.

Anyway, where on earth do you find C308s for $600?! I'll take 2. Seriously.

[copyman]

No, Hytec does not charge for unrepairable boards. What I meant was if you get advanced exchange and send them an unrepairble board they charge you.

If you can find an 8 series with decent meter it cost around $600 here in NJ. I wish more would show up at off lease warehouse but there are less and less of them. It sucks because I'm stuck buying "i" series.