[CQ] C227 / MF223 IU Query and Story

[Slammers]

Hello,

I am experiencing repeatable issues with IU's and I would like some confirmation on my suspicions.

FW: G00-X4 on one device, GCD-Y0 on another.

Story begins - warning, contains ramblings and over information, but some may enjoy my pain:

Had a machine in the field called in for CQ issues: M, C and Y IU's all streaking due to EOL. This was start of last week.

Full disclosure, all service settings for No-Stop set and messages supressed, they get run through until they streak.

Had one single C IU new in box on shelf, and eta for the others was weeks. Had a freshly unboxed unit in workshop, no plans for it to go out, so I removed the Y and M IU's from this device to use in the field.

This new machine had been booted, toned, test prints etc before the IU's were removed, all perfect, as expected.

When I installed the new C and the 2 "nearly new" IU's in the machine in the field it booted fine, stabilised, printed first gradation then it coded out on TCR low M. Checking the levels sure enough the M IU was sitting at 1.2% and the yellow was also sitting about 2.3%. The brand new C IU was perfectly fine.

This is where mistakes were made on my behalf, last job of the day, want to get it fixed ASAP, you know how it goes:

I manual added for Y and M (These were already properly full and levelled correctly in the donor machine - whyyyyy would I do this!!! - Mistake)

The Y IU filled to 6.83% in about half a cycle of toner add, suspicious, but all ok in test prints.
The M IU took ages to tone up, but I persisted, (and ofc, it overfilled physically), but machine was reporting 6.35% so thought OK. (This was about 30-45 mins of Manual Add M to bring it up)
So, yeah, you guessed it: I go to do a Gradation adjust and it was like I had loaded pink media into the drawer. Entire background was magenta, edge to edge.
Internally the ITB, transfer roller and the IU itself was a warzone of Magenta. The Image unit was completely full, the Drum unit was coated in toner when I removed the IU to inspect and the blade was obviously choked as the drum wouldnt clear when turned manually. Brutal - Savage - Rekt

At this point the customer was itching to get home, as was I. Apologised, blamed faulty part and set them to print B/W until I could return with a new M IU. They were very understanding and chill about it, which was nice.

Next day:

I return, with another used IU, probably about 35k on it, but all ok in the parts machine it came from - test prints clear, TCR levels good etc.
I remove the blown unit, dusted out the entire machine, replaced the ITB cleaning blade, secondary transfer roller checked the front side connector, checked the cable seating for the IU at the rear, all seems groovy, installed the M IU.
I print a test page - edge to edge magenta background - sweaty collar time. TCR level looks suspiciously like the level it had before, wish I had taken a picture.

Now to really get into the nitty gritty. I go into service mode and perform the following adjustments:

Stabiliser -> Intialise and Background Reset
Gradation Adjust A3 -> Print x3 Copy x3 (Stabiliser OK, no P codes, adjust completed OK)
Blue Button to perform final stabilisation
Back to home
Print test page - This is my reference page going forward, has the magenta background, but everything else about it is OK balance wise

Suspecting either an issue with HV, PCRB or LSU

Lets start with HV testing:
Image adjust process:
Image Density M to -10 (MAX low)
Background Density Adjust M to -5 (MAX low)
Blue button to perform final stabilisation
Back to home
Print test page
Compare to reference page taken before:

They were identical.

I went back into service, changed the values for density, repeated above steps. Nothing I changed in the image adjustment for M had any imapct on the output.

This is where the machine is currently sitting. I again apologised, praised the customer's patience and gave them the estimated arrival date on the new, oem IU's that were ordered up.

To satisfy my curiosity I installed the M IU back into the original new donor machine TCR = 12.83%!!!!!! Managed to bring it down, no edge to edge issues but I can see that irrecoverable damage has been done to the drum and dev (Mottled/Splotchy output on halftone 55, also visbly faint on halftone 255 witch splotches)

Fast forward to today, another C227(MF223) CQ call in for another site, only C Streaking.
My colleage takes the C IU from the New Unboxed machine and yeah, you guessed it, edge to edge C on every colour print after replacing.

So, to finally get to my questions:

1) Do these machines just dislike using already intiliased IUs?
2) Advice on what i can do when the new IU arrives so I dont blow it out like the other 2?

Cheers for reading it through!

[copyman]

Re: C227 / MF223 IU Query and Story

Hello,

I am experiencing repeatable issues with IU's and I would like some confirmation on my suspicions.

FW: G00-X4 on one device, GCD-Y0 on another.

Story begins - warning, contains ramblings and over information, but some may enjoy my pain:

Had a machine in the field called in for CQ issues: M, C and Y IU's all streaking due to EOL. This was start of last week.

Full disclosure, all service settings for No-Stop set and messages supressed, they get run through until they streak.

Had one single C IU new in box on shelf, and eta for the others was weeks. Had a freshly unboxed unit in workshop, no plans for it to go out, so I removed the Y and M IU's from this device to use in the field.

This new machine had been booted, toned, test prints etc before the IU's were removed, all perfect, as expected.

When I installed the new C and the 2 "nearly new" IU's in the machine in the field it booted fine, stabilised, printed first gradation then it coded out on TCR low M. Checking the levels sure enough the M IU was sitting at 1.2% and the yellow was also sitting about 2.3%. The brand new C IU was perfectly fine.

This is where mistakes were made on my behalf, last job of the day, want to get it fixed ASAP, you know how it goes:

I manual added for Y and M (These were already properly full and levelled correctly in the donor machine - whyyyyy would I do this!!! - Mistake)

The Y IU filled to 6.83% in about half a cycle of toner add, suspicious, but all ok in test prints.
The M IU took ages to tone up, but I persisted, (and ofc, it overfilled physically), but machine was reporting 6.35% so thought OK. (This was about 30-45 mins of Manual Add M to bring it up)
So, yeah, you guessed it: I go to do a Gradation adjust and it was like I had loaded pink media into the drawer. Entire background was magenta, edge to edge.
Internally the ITB, transfer roller and the IU itself was a warzone of Magenta. The Image unit was completely full, the Drum unit was coated in toner when I removed the IU to inspect and the blade was obviously choked as the drum wouldnt clear when turned manually. Brutal - Savage - Rekt

At this point the customer was itching to get home, as was I. Apologised, blamed faulty part and set them to print B/W until I could return with a new M IU. They were very understanding and chill about it, which was nice.

Next day:

I return, with another used IU, probably about 35k on it, but all ok in the parts machine it came from - test prints clear, TCR levels good etc.
I remove the blown unit, dusted out the entire machine, replaced the ITB cleaning blade, secondary transfer roller checked the front side connector, checked the cable seating for the IU at the rear, all seems groovy, installed the M IU.
I print a test page - edge to edge magenta background - sweaty collar time. TCR level looks suspiciously like the level it had before, wish I had taken a picture.

Now to really get into the nitty gritty. I go into service mode and perform the following adjustments:

Stabiliser -> Intialise and Background Reset
Gradation Adjust A3 -> Print x3 Copy x3 (Stabiliser OK, no P codes, adjust completed OK)
Blue Button to perform final stabilisation
Back to home
Print test page - This is my reference page going forward, has the magenta background, but everything else about it is OK balance wise

Suspecting either an issue with HV, PCRB or LSU

Lets start with HV testing:
Image adjust process:
Image Density M to -10 (MAX low)
Background Density Adjust M to -5 (MAX low)
Blue button to perform final stabilisation
Back to home
Print test page
Compare to reference page taken before:

They were identical.

I went back into service, changed the values for density, repeated above steps. Nothing I changed in the image adjustment for M had any imapct on the output.

This is where the machine is currently sitting. I again apologised, praised the customer's patience and gave them the estimated arrival date on the new, oem IU's that were ordered up.

To satisfy my curiosity I installed the M IU back into the original new donor machine TCR = 12.83%!!!!!! Managed to bring it down, no edge to edge issues but I can see that irrecoverable damage has been done to the drum and dev (Mottled/Splotchy output on halftone 55, also visbly faint on halftone 255 witch splotches)

Fast forward to today, another C227(MF223) CQ call in for another site, only C Streaking.
My colleage takes the C IU from the New Unboxed machine and yeah, you guessed it, edge to edge C on every colour print after replacing.

So, to finally get to my questions:

1) Do these machines just dislike using already intiliased IUs?
2) Advice on what i can do when the new IU arrives so I dont blow it out like the other 2?

Cheers for reading it through!

I feel your pain brother. Sorry don't have much experience with the C227, only have one in the field and after reading your post don't think I will sell another. The one I have kind of reminded me of the ugly stepchild, like the Biz C200.

Anyway only thing that comes to mind, are they using aftermarket toner? And hopefully someone with more experience on this model can help you. I wouldn't put it past Kon Min for used units not to work! They are slowly losing their status as a customers favorite OEM but more importantly losing the technicians confidence. I can think of several things they have done to us, screwed us on toner shortage, went to PCR's in their drum units (so now you are lucky to get a full cycle out of them), can't get new machines, etc etc

Good luck....

[allan]

Re: C227 / MF223 IU Query and Story

Hello,

I am experiencing repeatable issues with IU's and I would like some confirmation on my suspicions.

FW: G00-X4 on one device, GCD-Y0 on another.

Story begins - warning, contains ramblings and over information, but some may enjoy my pain:

Had a machine in the field called in for CQ issues: M, C and Y IU's all streaking due to EOL. This was start of last week.

Full disclosure, all service settings for No-Stop set and messages supressed, they get run through until they streak.

Had one single C IU new in box on shelf, and eta for the others was weeks. Had a freshly unboxed unit in workshop, no plans for it to go out, so I removed the Y and M IU's from this device to use in the field.

This new machine had been booted, toned, test prints etc before the IU's were removed, all perfect, as expected.

When I installed the new C and the 2 "nearly new" IU's in the machine in the field it booted fine, stabilised, printed first gradation then it coded out on TCR low M. Checking the levels sure enough the M IU was sitting at 1.2% and the yellow was also sitting about 2.3%. The brand new C IU was perfectly fine.

This is where mistakes were made on my behalf, last job of the day, want to get it fixed ASAP, you know how it goes:

I manual added for Y and M (These were already properly full and levelled correctly in the donor machine - whyyyyy would I do this!!! - Mistake)

The Y IU filled to 6.83% in about half a cycle of toner add, suspicious, but all ok in test prints.
The M IU took ages to tone up, but I persisted, (and ofc, it overfilled physically), but machine was reporting 6.35% so thought OK. (This was about 30-45 mins of Manual Add M to bring it up)
So, yeah, you guessed it: I go to do a Gradation adjust and it was like I had loaded pink media into the drawer. Entire background was magenta, edge to edge.
Internally the ITB, transfer roller and the IU itself was a warzone of Magenta. The Image unit was completely full, the Drum unit was coated in toner when I removed the IU to inspect and the blade was obviously choked as the drum wouldnt clear when turned manually. Brutal - Savage - Rekt

At this point the customer was itching to get home, as was I. Apologised, blamed faulty part and set them to print B/W until I could return with a new M IU. They were very understanding and chill about it, which was nice.

Next day:

I return, with another used IU, probably about 35k on it, but all ok in the parts machine it came from - test prints clear, TCR levels good etc.
I remove the blown unit, dusted out the entire machine, replaced the ITB cleaning blade, secondary transfer roller checked the front side connector, checked the cable seating for the IU at the rear, all seems groovy, installed the M IU.
I print a test page - edge to edge magenta background - sweaty collar time. TCR level looks suspiciously like the level it had before, wish I had taken a picture.

Now to really get into the nitty gritty. I go into service mode and perform the following adjustments:

Stabiliser -> Intialise and Background Reset
Gradation Adjust A3 -> Print x3 Copy x3 (Stabiliser OK, no P codes, adjust completed OK)
Blue Button to perform final stabilisation
Back to home
Print test page - This is my reference page going forward, has the magenta background, but everything else about it is OK balance wise

Suspecting either an issue with HV, PCRB or LSU

Lets start with HV testing:
Image adjust process:
Image Density M to -10 (MAX low)
Background Density Adjust M to -5 (MAX low)
Blue button to perform final stabilisation
Back to home
Print test page
Compare to reference page taken before:

They were identical.

I went back into service, changed the values for density, repeated above steps. Nothing I changed in the image adjustment for M had any imapct on the output.

This is where the machine is currently sitting. I again apologised, praised the customer's patience and gave them the estimated arrival date on the new, oem IU's that were ordered up.

To satisfy my curiosity I installed the M IU back into the original new donor machine TCR = 12.83%!!!!!! Managed to bring it down, no edge to edge issues but I can see that irrecoverable damage has been done to the drum and dev (Mottled/Splotchy output on halftone 55, also visbly faint on halftone 255 witch splotches)

Fast forward to today, another C227(MF223) CQ call in for another site, only C Streaking.
My colleage takes the C IU from the New Unboxed machine and yeah, you guessed it, edge to edge C on every colour print after replacing.

So, to finally get to my questions:

1) Do these machines just dislike using already intiliased IUs?
2) Advice on what i can do when the new IU arrives so I dont blow it out like the other 2?

Cheers for reading it through!

To safe yourself massive headaches you need to reset the units it must do new article detection on the receiving machine. You can other wise get replacement chips for the IU's or replace the ICP's on the existing chips. It will mix the dev/toner mix in the tank for a couple of minutes and then take a TCR reading whatever reading it get is set to 6.5%. TCR sensor tolerance vary a lot from chip to chip. That is the reason it does initialization .

The existing IU's are set to compensate for the age and work done. Dev bias and drum charge are offset to maintain quality but does not reflect anywhere. KM does not mention this feature much. If you overrun units the HV adj out of reasonable range and the HV circuits gets overloaded and before you know it dev gets pulled and drums gets toasted. Its wise to reset units and then make slight adjustments if necessary. I never recommend tweaking if more than one tech works in the same area.

So to move units make sure that the receiving machine does new article detection. Chips or ICP replacement must be done.

You can actually fix the units by detoning till it looks OK and then initializing. You must find a way to stop the toner feed somehow while doing this.

On KM if you understand this and development band adjustment you can remedy most CQ issues.

[Albonline]

Re: C227 / MF223 IU Query and Story

I've learned the hard way about reusing developer/image units. I can do it, but is it worth the risk of having to go back and do it again? and clean up the mess it makes? NOT to ME.

[copyman]

Re: C227 / MF223 IU Query and Story

To safe yourself massive headaches you need to reset the units it must do new article detection on the receiving machine. You can other wise get replacement chips for the IU's or replace the ICP's on the existing chips. It will mix the dev/toner mix in the tank for a couple of minutes and then take a TCR reading whatever reading it get is set to 6.5%. TCR sensor tolerance vary a lot from chip to chip. That is the reason it does initialization .

The existing IU's are set to compensate for the age and work done. Dev bias and drum charge are offset to maintain quality but does not reflect anywhere. KM does not mention this feature much. If you overrun units the HV adj out of reasonable range and the HV circuits gets overloaded and before you know it dev gets pulled and drums gets toasted. Its wise to reset units and then make slight adjustments if necessary. I never recommend tweaking if more than one tech works in the same area.

So to move units make sure that the receiving machine does new article detection. Chips or ICP replacement must be done.

You can actually fix the units by detoning till it looks OK and then initializing. You must find a way to stop the toner feed somehow while doing this.

On KM if you understand this and development band adjustment you can remedy most CQ issues.

Kon/Min is going backwards! This was the way it was with the Bizhub C250/C252 and installing used IU's or sometimes even chipping the units. The IU's would compensate for the drum wear and change the voltage, bias, etc. It was best to leave them alone and would run 2-3 cycles. There was a procedure to make them work when chipping (something like manually tone units up first then chip). When they came out with C203 series which also used IU's I chipped those regularly with minimal issues. And of course when the C220 series came out later with separate drums & developer units these could be swapped around with no issues.
Although I have installed & chipped used IU's in the C654 series with no problems.