BizHub Pro C500 jam code 17-01 and magenta streak toward back of copier

[Desert Rat]

,
As suggested I cleaned all the feed and paper path rollers with rejuvinator. The only roller
that I would replace now is the sep tire in tray one because it looks smooth. I just looked at
the counter and tray one Dfeed is 29422 as is the feed roller and feed clutch.
tray 2 Dfeed, feed rlr and feed clutch are at 13351 and tray 3 is at 9068. I just started servicing
this customer last summer and have not changed any of these parts. I have seen where time can
also be a factor. My gut feel is that it is lowering the tray during the run and causing a mis-feed.
the sep tire in the upper tray 1 is smooth, no real tread. I was expecting a multifeed instead of
a miss feed.
Are the oneways in this machine very reliable? The total count on the machine is 572K.
The jam log shows this is happening from all supplies.
I am going back this AM to see if I can eliminate a magenta streak toward the back during color
copy or print.
Has anyone tried Goo-Gone as a rejuvinator? I know it melts toner real good on metal rollers.

Could someone point me in the right direction or put my nose on the problem?

Thanks
Grabbing at straws

DR

[minimerlin]

If I remember , a J17 code is to do with the registration area! I would look at the roller, sensor and drives.

[Desert Rat]

,
minimerlin,
Yesterday it miss fed within 25 sheets and got better after cleaning. Today I went back and recleaned
the paper path rollers with a scotch brite and a stronger rejuvinator and that seem to do the trick.
The customer has the machine set for normal 4 on all three trays. It would feed one sheet at a time,
all the way to the finisher before starting the next feed. I switched the top tray to normal 3 and it fed
normally. I assume that's normal for a heavier paper setting.
The magenta streak is probably being caused by the transfer belt rollers. I had a peak in there and they
could use some cleaning. The count on the rollers is 196K and 2nd transfer rollers are at 264K.
Has anyone else seen that happen under these conditions?

DR

[RRodgers]

,
minimerlin,
Yesterday it miss fed within 25 sheets and got better after cleaning. Today I went back and recleaned
the paper path rollers with a scotch brite and a stronger rejuvinator and that seem to do the trick.
The customer has the machine set for normal 4 on all three trays. It would feed one sheet at a time,
all the way to the finisher before starting the next feed. I switched the top tray to normal 3 and it fed
normally. I assume that's normal for a heavier paper setting.
The magenta streak is probably being caused by the transfer belt rollers. I had a peak in there and they
could use some cleaning. The count on the rollers is 196K and 2nd transfer rollers are at 264K.
Has anyone else seen that happen under these conditions?

DR

Try cleaning the magenta corona with the corona cleaner on the door. I've found that you usually start getting streaks (in one color or another) when it's just about due for a PM. Did you bend that plate like I told ya?

[Desert Rat]

RRodgers,
Yes sir, I did exactly as instructed. I have to admit I forgot to use the wire cleaner provided.
I did clean all the chargers. Odd tho the magenta charger was the cleanest of the lot.
I removed the dv units and wiped loose toner from the tops. The shelves were clean.
The laser dust slit glasses were also clean. I had replaced the drums, wires, grids, and
dev mix about 40K ago.
Yesterday I had a peak inside the transfer belt assy. It could use a good cleaning if nothing else.
I made a copy with a small amount of color in the middle and from edge to edge the magenta
streak is visible in an area of no image.
Next copy I openned the door and stop the paper at the regist roller.
I could see slight matching wear lines on the magenta drum and transfer area for that drum.
The numbers on the transfer belt are 1st transfer rollers at 196K and the seconds are at 264K.
I am thinking this could be what I was looking for.
On the jams, I recleaned the paper path rollers with a new scotch brite and a stronger cleaner.
this seemed to do the trick. The customer had all three trays set to normal four. I set the top tray to
normal 3. It seemed to run better no mis-feeds. I also pinched that plate you mentioned. I am
told that sometimes the same symptoms can occur from the roller set under 8a. New stronger springs
I am told would help. Has anyone tried to cut a coil or two from the exsisting springs? I have done
this on other models with success. I guess I am just alittle gun shy with this model.
This is a T&M customer, once I found the transfer belt dirty, I put the ball back in the customers
court. I will need to get them an estimate on the transfer kit. Having never done this and talked to
a rep who did for the first time with help from someone, I know I may be challenged to tag all the bases
the first time.
This chore will have to be done in order to eliminate the transfer as a possible cause.
Any hints on this would be applied to the work in front of me.

Thanks you for lending your time and expertise to my plight.

DR

[Stirton.M]

This machine is due for a PM, according to some of the numbers you provided, it is highly recommended that this be done for optimum image reproduction. Get the 200K PM kit. It will contain all you need to do a proper transfer belt rebuild, first transfer rollers, second transfer upper roller and belt, including the cleaning blade for the belt itself and ADU 2nd transfer roller and discharge unit. Also included are 4 charge wire assemblies, separate grids for them and the little springs. I think the fusing rollers are also included in this kit, as well as two waste toner bottles. Typical PM time for an experienced tech is about 2 hours provided there are no problems encountered. DO NOT CLEAN THE TRANSFER ROLLERS. They are not cleanable and doing so will affect image transfer. That said....

Generally, the transfer belt assembly doesn't take any toner where none exists on the drum unit. So in all likelyhood, your problem lies with the drum and developing sections. Drum bias is usually the issue. The charge assemblies with the grids provide the drum with a high value negative charge. When the laser writes on the surface, it discharges (makes the surface more positive) and toner is attracted to the drum in those areas. The transfer belt itself is much more positively charged than the drum units and will attract toner from the drum to the belt. And then the second transfer roller on the ADU is even more positively charged and will pull the toner off the belt and onto the paper.

The surface of the drum is an organic mixture. If it becomes worn, the worn areas are no longer easily charged by the charge assembly. Toner will be attracted to those areas regardless. Streaking can be caused by oxidation on the charge wires, causing an uneven charge pattern (hazy and undefined), or some kind of obstruction in the laser path, such as dust on the glass or a piece of fuzz beneath the dev unit above the colour affected (white defined line).

To troubleshoot the cause, you can swap the position of the drum charge unit with another colour. If that doesn't change anything when you test, then swap the drum unit. If that doesn't show anything, then swap the developing unit with another colour (be sure to tape over the toner add holes on the dev unit so you do not mix new toner into the wrong colour). These steps will eliminate your process sections.

Also, look for anything that might be rubbing against the drum surface in that area...to cause it to "short" to ground (making it more positive) before the drum meets up with the developer brush. Something as stupid simple as a mylar or piece of paper just touching the surface where the image defect is.

[FrankieB]

this should help you with your problem, any streaking is probably corona wires/grid or transfer belt cl blade17-01.JPG

[Desert Rat]

Thank You Frankie B
I am waiting for the customer to make a decision on the transfer kit.
I have been busy rebuilding a different model to sell.
All of a sudden I have more to do than I can deal with in a short time frame, but I'm very happy
to be busy.

Thanks for the post

DR

[RRodgers]

I just snapped a pic of the part to bend that I was talking about. I'll upload it soon.

[Desert Rat]

RRodgers,
Thank you for thinking of me and offering to post that picture. The customer tells me that 1 - 2 pages
register ok but later in the run they start slipping to the edge. After I cleaned the path rollers
I checked serveral copies a run of 25 30 pages and they looked square on the page.
I did this a couple of times. This machine has almost 600K on the meter. How long do the cluches
generally last on this model?
I did reseat connectors on the feed board on the front of the paper path section that pulls out.
I believe that someone posted the part numbers for the new style springs. I will have to get them on
order. Or take a coil or two off the current springs.
I am waiting for the customer to make a decision on the transfer belt assy rebuild. I need to go
back and swap a couple of items mentioned to narrow down the magenta streak.


Thank


DR

[RRodgers]

Ok, here is a pic of what I was talking about. Often times I get skewing on these boxes and I find that this plate has a tendency to "bow" up. I push down on the corners (red arrow's) and that seems to fix it.

[Stirton.M]

varying first side registration in the main scan direction.
Solution
CAUSE: Possible failed Imaging Centering sensor PS25 (CN928 on the PFDB).
SOLUTION: Use the information in the attached documentation concerning 1st side, 2nd side registration and image position.
Try disabling the skew correction sensors to see if this corrects the problem. To disable skew correction: set DIPSW 26-4=1 and DIPSW 26-5=1. When
DIPSW 26-4=1, skew correction is disabled for PFU1, PFU2 and LCT. When DIPSW 26-5=1, ADU skew correction is disabled.

Replace the Imaging Centering sensor (p/n A03X R703 00) as necessary.



Generally, we just disable these all together. It does mean we have to have a bit more TLC when cleaning rollers and adjusting, but it eliminates the headache of random image registration shift in the scan (front to rear) direction. We have replaced the registration sensors in the past but what we had found was that if glossy stock was used, it was an intermittant shift. If plain stock was used, it never happened. If the customer is using exclusive glossy the majority of the time, we disable those sensors and then adjust the machine to center all the trays manually, starting with the PF601/LU202 and centering everything else based on the feed unit. Bit of work, but we have not had to deal with this issue.

[Stirton.M]

Ok, here is a pic of what I was talking about. Often times I get skewing on these boxes and I find that this plate has a tendency to "bow" up. I push down on the corners (red arrow's) and that seems to fix it.

I've had only a couple customers with this problem. It only happens if they improperly remove a jam, mostly on thick stock. When they pull the ADU out, any paper stuck in that area will bunch up at the rear side, bowing the plate. Its one of those things you need to inform the customer of so they are at least aware of it. It is in their interest to remove paper jams properly if they can help it. Sometimes not always practical of course, but it does help. I usually unscrew the two screws by your arrows and slide a screwdriver in between the plates where the screws are and this gives me a bit more room to squeeze the plates together. Observing the metal pin on the white rollers, I verify that they are not bottomed out in the metal tabs, preventing a proper pinch between the rollers.

There is a modified rubber tire that can also be put in place of those plastic rollers, though unfortunately I cannot find the part number. Has a slightly larger diameter as well. If I can, I will post the part number later for these.

[Desert Rat]

RRodgers & Stirton M,
Great pictures and advice, I will have to spend some free time on site to administer all of the
suggestions made. That is not a problem as soon as I can clear a couple of calls, I may have the time.
It won't take long to disable the sensors and I believe they do run heavy stock glossy paper.
I am going to look at my used stock that I save for trouble shooting to see if I can strike a nerve
with this streak also. Next week I hope.

Thanks

DR