Aficio 1060 (B064) curl & jam on full bleed copy

[breaker]

Hi, I have an account that runs packets of docs where some are full color full page photos. When the copy job hits these pages, the paper curls in the fuser and can't get past the exit guide due to this curl. It becomes a tri-fold basically.

I have tried:

New hot and pressure rollers
adjusting the pressure spring position to the other setting
adjusting the fuser entrance guide up and down
increasing the web timing interval (shorter) and duration (longer)
adjusting the fusing temperature down
Fresh Hammermill 24# Laser paper

It happens from the internal LCT and the external LCT.

It happens on Legal paper, but not quite as severly.

The machine has almost 2 million copies on it.

I am out of ideas....

Thanks for any help!!!

[Polo-022]

High toner consentration maybe? Did you check SP 2-209 (toner supply rate) for a lower value than nominal (850mg)? I would check paper density also if it's really 80gr.

[imaginemoko]

are you using original toner? it happens when full bleed and not in plain text right? as mentioned toner density on the page that paper stick on pawls... try also to replace
AB01 2031 Gear
B065 4400 Bracket
AB01 9197 Exit Gear

good luck.

[schooltech]

I assume you are referring to simplex copying rather than duplex copying, correct?

Have you changed paper types, like thicker paper? It would affect the speed and temp, but you can go in and adjust the thick paper temp.

Yeah, this can be a tough one. Of course, the machine, "has ALWAYS worked fine for 75 years until now!"

Anyway, I would try to slow it down a bit going through the fuser. Without seeing the machine it is a bit tough to diagnose.

Have you cheated the door and watched different bleed coverages going through the fuser until one of them does stop it, at least enough to know when the machine begins to screw up?

Another thing I thought of is to increase the lead edge void a bit more so the fuser claws can help to separate the paper from the fuser roller.

[breaker]

THICK mode: You can make Tray 1 or the LCT Thick on that model?

others: Like I said I tried 24# Bond Hammermill Laser, so the 80gr isn't the issue.

toner concentration: Well I think it is nominal, but I will go double check. The machine is UP to PM spec, and yes OEM toner...

I did increase the lead edge erase, I forgot to mention that.

SIMPLEX, yes

But yes, as far as why/where it stops, I can take a full bleed "problem" original, copy it, and it will stop almost every time. It stops either on top of the fuser exit guide and folded over in such a way that the curve of the fold is attempting to enter the nip of the first exit unit entrance guide. Therefore it won't go in! Sometimes the paper curl is so bad it goes UNDER the exit guide. The fuser keeps pushing and we get a nice tri-fold. Before it jams it makes a flapping noise as the paper is trying to move but can't

I would TRY, the AB012031 gear, B0654400 bracket, and AB019197 exit gear... but I also swapped the entire exit unit with an exit unit from another machine, but this doesn't include the fusing exit guide. What is with the bracket? Does it get malformed, or is it a new style? What about the spring? Maybe I should try these parts anyway since I put in a USED exit unit for troubleshooting...

Oh, sometimes when putting the fuser drawer back in, if it isn't done a tad firmly, it doesn't engage and there is a noise and a jam. Not sure why it is touchy there.

Maybe it is wear and tear on the gears of the fusing unit itself? I replaced the bearings and bushings for the rollers when I did the fusing unit rebuild.
Thanks much!

[tcs04]

Hi, I have an account that runs packets of docs where some are full color full page photos. When the copy job hits these pages, the paper curls in the fuser and can't get past the exit guide due to this curl. It becomes a tri-fold basically.

I have tried:

New hot and pressure rollers
adjusting the pressure spring position to the other setting
adjusting the fuser entrance guide up and down
increasing the web timing interval (shorter) and duration (longer)
adjusting the fusing temperature down
Fresh Hammermill 24# Laser paper

It happens from the internal LCT and the external LCT.

It happens on Legal paper, but not quite as severly.

The machine has almost 2 million copies on it.

I am out of ideas....

Thanks for any help!!!

If as you seem to say, the customer is running pre printed stock, it may make sense to try running "Short Edge First" as this would tend to conteract the natural curl of the paper. Is this what you mean by "Legal Paper"? (I'm not familiar with your paper size / orientation). Is it a new batch of stock from the printer? It could just be that they used paper with more curl, or used slightly more damping in the litho process which has affected the paper.

[KopyKat]

If as you seem to say, the customer is running pre printed stock, it may make sense to try running "Short Edge First" as this would tend to conteract the natural curl of the paper. Is this what you mean by "Legal Paper"? (I'm not familiar with your paper size / orientation). Is it a new batch of stock from the printer? It could just be that they used paper with more curl, or used slightly more damping in the litho process which has affected the paper.

Are the pre-printed color pages printed on an offset printing press or are they coming from a color copier? If they are printing the color pages on a color copier, the color toner is going to cause major problems due to different toner melting temps and properties. Never had any luck with pre-printing color copies and then running them back through a B&W machine. For this type of application an interposer on the finisher is your best option as it inserts the color pages AFTER the fusing process.

Next question...are the fuser rolls and web OEM as well as the toner?

[breaker]

If as you seem to say, the customer is running pre printed stock, it may make sense to try running "Short Edge First" as this would tend to conteract the natural curl of the paper. Is this what you mean by "Legal Paper"? (I'm not familiar with your paper size / orientation). Is it a new batch of stock from the printer? It could just be that they used paper with more curl, or used slightly more damping in the litho process which has affected the paper.

OK, yes Legal paper is SEF but 14 inches long instead of 11. NO, it is not pre-printed stock, the ORIGINAL is a full page print of a color photo, 8.5" by 11". Thanks...

[breaker]

Are the pre-printed color pages printed on an offset printing press or are they coming from a color copier? If they are printing the color pages on a color copier, the color toner is going to cause major problems due to different toner melting temps and properties. Never had any luck with pre-printing color copies and then running them back through a B&W machine. For this type of application an interposer on the finisher is your best option as it inserts the color pages AFTER the fusing process.

Next question...are the fuser rolls and web OEM as well as the toner?

Sorry for the confusion, but the copies are being printed onto brand new white 20# bond copy paper, NOT pre-printed paper. The issue is when a particular ORIGINAL is copied (a full bleed color print), the resulting COPY jams. THEY ARE NOT running PRE-PRINTED STOCK. Yes, I use all Ricoh OEM parts 100% and supplies and consumables. Thanks for your input!!! I am going to take one of these "problem" originals to another Ricoh Aficio 1060 and see if it jams in it also. THANKS for all of you input!!!

[tcs04]

Sorry for the confusion, but the copies are being printed onto brand new white 20# bond copy paper, NOT pre-printed paper. The issue is when a particular ORIGINAL is copied (a full bleed color print), the resulting COPY jams. THEY ARE NOT running PRE-PRINTED STOCK. Yes, I use all Ricoh OEM parts 100% and supplies and consumables. Thanks for your input!!! I am going to take one of these "problem" originals to another Ricoh Aficio 1060 and see if it jams in it also. THANKS for all of you input!!!

Mmmmm! You DO have a problem!! The only solution I can suggest is to reduce the copy slightly which would provide the opportunity for a larger erase margin and / or registration shift. Also (?) Have you set the machine to original "Photo" mode? This would not only produce a better contrast from a Photo original but also reduce the lead edge toner coverage.

[tcs04]

Sorry for the confusion, but the copies are being printed onto brand new white 20# bond copy paper, NOT pre-printed paper. The issue is when a particular ORIGINAL is copied (a full bleed color print), the resulting COPY jams. THEY ARE NOT running PRE-PRINTED STOCK. Yes, I use all Ricoh OEM parts 100% and supplies and consumables. Thanks for your input!!! I am going to take one of these "problem" originals to another Ricoh Aficio 1060 and see if it jams in it also. THANKS for all of you input!!!

One more thing! Does the solid cover the whole page? If not try feeding the original blank edge first through the ADF and / or alter the original orientation settings via the op panel.

[schooltech]

This attachment is taken out of the 1060 System Settings guide.

If I am now understanding the problem, the paper has so much curl that it can hardly make it out of the fuser, and if it does, the fuser causes even more curl so that it will not even properly exit the assembly? Before the paper enters the fuser, the paper hits the entrance plate just fine and there are no jamming problems here?

Just for S & G, are all of the voltage settings for bias & transfer at factory spec?

It ALMOST sounds like the paper has so much static, moisture, or something else that is causing the curl on the paper either by the reg. area or during the tx process, although the external LCT should not add hardly anything to the curl problem. But, I believe you stated that this happens on the full bleed copies only, and regular copying is ok, correct?

What happens with even thicker paper, somewhere in the 100-130 gm/m^2 territory?

I'm not 100% certain that the problem is specific to the fuser unit itself, because you've already swapped it with another one. But, stranger things have happened. There are those decurling rollers right after the fuser as well. When you said that you swapped out the fuser, did you swap out just the fuser unit, or all of the fuser components on the rail?

Yes, trying it on another box would be a good idea, as you may be chasing something that has caused you a lot of frustration.

What happens from the bypass drawer when it is set to the thick paper setting? Are you getting the same results?

[breaker]

One more thing! Does the solid cover the whole page? If not try feeding the original blank edge first through the ADF and / or alter the original orientation settings via the op panel.

Pretty much the whole page except for a 3 mm edge.

[breaker]

This attachment is taken out of the 1060 System Settings guide.

If I am now understanding the problem, the paper has so much curl that it can hardly make it out of the fuser, and if it does, the fuser causes even more curl so that it will not even properly exit the assembly? Before the paper enters the fuser, the paper hits the entrance plate just fine and there are no jamming problems here?

Yes, actually, it makes it out of the fuser, so no, there are no issues with it entering the fuser.

Just for S & G, are all of the voltage settings for bias & transfer at factory spec?

I think I checked to see if any of the SP modes were out of spec.. but I'm not sure... I will have to add this to my list to check. I was kinda wondering if the transfer belt unit was causing an issue, so I replaced the separation grid thingy whatever its called, and made sure the belt and terminals for the belt bias were good.

It ALMOST sounds like the paper has so much static, moisture, or something else that is causing the curl on the paper either by the reg. area or during the tx process, although the external LCT should not add hardly anything to the curl problem. But, I believe you stated that this happens on the full bleed copies only, and regular copying is ok, correct?

What happens with even thicker paper, somewhere in the 100-130 gm/m^2 territory?

Correct, only full bleed, it never curls like that on sheets full of text or something. I didn't try anything like 28# bond yet, I could I suppose.

I'm not 100% certain that the problem is specific to the fuser unit itself, because you've already swapped it with another one. But, stranger things have happened. There are those decurling rollers right after the fuser as well. When you said that you swapped out the fuser, did you swap out just the fuser unit, or all of the fuser components on the rail?

Yes, trying it on another box would be a good idea, as you may be chasing something that has caused you a lot of frustration.

What happens from the bypass drawer when it is set to the thick paper setting? Are you getting the same results?

No, I didn't swap the entire fuser, I swapped the entire exit unit minus the fuser.

I didn't try thick from the bypass because I was trying to duplicate what the customer would do, but I can I suppose.

As far as the paper type display setting, I am pretty sure that is just to inform the user and the print driver of the paper type, I'm almost positive it doesn't actually change temperature, voltage, or line speed. Once I thought so, but experience tells me different.

Thanks for all of the input, I will see what I can this week!!

[breaker]

Well, I got the machine to copy those troublesome originals. I'm not sure if either of my solutions will be convenient or satisfactory to the customer.

If I copy the original using THICK mode from the BYPASS, it copies OK.
OR If I copy using CREATE MARGIN (10 mm all the way around) it copies OK.

Increasing the lead edge erase to 7mm doesn't help, even though the create margin helps.
The SP 5-990-002 says all of the currents and voltages are nominal, although I didn't try metering the transfer bias roller or anything.
I still have not made it to a customer with the same machine...
It isn't over-toning with the toner supply rate.
Photo Mode doesn't help.
It does exit the fuser, and doesn't create a tri-fold anymore... now it is just an extremely wavy copy that exits the fuser, but doesn't enter the exit entrance guide.
Every once in a while a copy will actually make it through for whatever reason.

Sometimes, after one of these misfeeds, I clear the paper, and when I push the fusing unit drawer back into the machine, and I think I do it firmly enough, when the machine starts going again, there is a noise like the gears arent engaging or something, and It jams on the fuser ENTRANCE, that is it doesn't make it into the fuser. Then I pull it back out and slam it in again, and it works ok (as far as that issue).. I'm not sure if this is a separate issue or if it contributes to my other jamming issue. Perhaps there is some tweaked housings on the fusing unit or exit unit, I don't know.

Thanks..