GBCIII and D062 Series

[unisys12]

Hey guys, just wanted to let you know that I recently had a issue with a new install on a Savin 9090. Reason for the post is the lack of info from within the Ricoh group, so... as a Ginny Pig, I reserve the right to post/relate my experience with others for their gain. I guess anyway..

So we had a new client order a 9090, GBC StreamPunch III and a SR4030 Finisher. Order was made and excepted, but the MFP came in before the GBC, so we went out and installed the MFP and said that we would come out and install the GBC when it came in. This is were we, as a dealer screwed up!

The next day, another tech and I went out to install the GBC and found that nothing was right. When following the 3 year old instructions, nothing at all was right. After 10 minutes or so of trying to figure this crap out, I called a stop to project, popped open the laptop and checked the compatibility matrix in the Product Support Guide for the given model. Sure enough! The SR4030 was not compatible with the GBC. When I called my owner/purchasing agent, he told me that ISuite would normally alert him on a misconfiguration and it did not do it on this order!

Be it said here (PSG) that the only finishers compatible with the GBC is the SR4050 (100 sheet staple finisher) and the SR5010 (Booklet Maker).

So we ordered the SR4050 Finisher, as well as the Cover Interposer as a kind gesture to the new client. And to be honest, they could really use it! They were gonna have to run their covers, which were on heavy stock, through the bypass, to print and punch them. Then run them back through as a cover page through the machine. Adding the Cover Interposer would at least save them charges on one of the pages in the job.

We get the 4050 finisher in, as well as the interposer and I install everything on a 9060 that we have in the shop for another client. I just wanted to make sure that everything worked the way it was supposed to before I took everything down to the new client with the 9090. Good thing I did too, because the GBC didn't work right for crap!!

I called tech support and was told that I had a bad Data Cable (from the finsiher to GBC). So I ordered that, overnight none the less. It did not fix my problem! I called support again and they could not help me any further since I was not trained on the product and my Service Manager, who is, would not call in. So I was totally stuck!

I called my regional tech rep and he told me about some Beta Software that was avaliable that might fix the problem. So he sent it over to me and sure enough, problem solved!

So here's the issue.... On the new D062 frames, they have different Engine Timing than any other product we have. A 60 ppm machine might start out at 50ppm and end at 75ppm. So long as it averages 60ppm, it's ok, for spec reasons. Again, a 90ppm machine might start a job at 60ppm, but end at 110ppm. Just depending on the job length. Our products, such as finishers and such, don't have a problem with this, but third party products like the GBC,do! It will cause a ton of issues! You have to have this firmware, which is an Engine firmware, to allow the GBC to work.

From best I can tell, it turns off the Ramp Up/Speed Up feature of the product. If you pay close attention, you will notice it. During a small job, say less than 20 pages or so, you will notice that the first 5 or so pages seem to struggle to get out of the machine. After that though, it seems to putt right along.

Worse of all, there does not seem to be a enough concern from Japan to offer this firmware to everyone. From what I was told, it will be up to GBC to solve this problem. How stupid!!??

Anyway, if anyone has jamming issues with a D062 family product, with a GBC Streampunch III. You will either have to go through the hoops with tech support or called your regional rep. At some point, you will get the software and your problem will be solved. I could give it to everyone, but that would not solve the problem! We have to let Japan know that we have enough of problem out here to justify making software available to everyone.

One other thing... Go into User Tools, Copier/Doc settings, Input/Output, and select Punch Type. From there, choose MultiPunch and viola! The GBC will show up on the LCD Display as an option. At that point, place the sticker over the power button of the GBC.

I would like to thank Shadow1 for all his input with this issue!! Without his help, I would've probably drank way too much and lost everything. Thanks again Shadow1!!

Chin Up!!

[Smee]

These streampunches are horrible.....I look after one on a AF2105 with a SR841 finisher and I gotta visit it every single day for jams.....

All my problems seem to be in the finisher. The copier has the latest firmware, and the finisher has the correct Eprom fitted. Ive replaced the sensors, rollers, guides and it still jams. So I replaced the entire finisher with another one and it STILL jams.

And when its not jamming, the holes are getting punched too far back - so I gotta clean out the chads from around the solenoid and the back gauge plate at least once per week.

Also, because it punches the leading edge it causes severe curl when it exits the finisher in the shift tray - this makes the later pages bend and fold and mixes up the order of the booklets.

The only thing ive found to be a little help is by rising and lowering the streampunch and the finisher to get the entrance and exit levels correct, and by changing the paper from 80gsm to 100gsm. I'm sooooo over this machine.

BUT i still visit it every day.....

[Shadow1]

Thanks again Shadow1!!

You're gonna ruin my bad reputation We ended up with a long list of stuff that didn't cause the problem...

One of the things that might help Smee or anybody else cursed with one of these is the "adjustment" I mentioned to the pinch rollers on the aligning belts.

On the entrance and exit transport areas are green belts set at an angle so that the paper gets pushed into a guide to align it front to back. Particularly on the higher speed machines the paper gets pushed too hard into the guide and the extra drag causes timing problems downstream which shows as jams in the finisher.

The solution is to unhook the tension spring on the center pinch roller so it just floats there with no tension on the belt.

90's seem ok for me with all 3 rollers, but that's not to say somebody else's machine wouldn't benefit from the mod. Most of the higher speed machines (105ppm and up) need it on the exit side at least, and it usually doesn't hurt to do the entrance as well. The 135's need it on both sides.

[stephend]

Thanks unisys12 and shadow 1 for this detailed description! For me all the info posted is goldmine...cause I just received a notification from one of our salesguys that I'm the lucky winner of a Aficio MP 7001 + GBC III (used!!) + SR4050 + cover interposer. We couldn't make this system work in the shop because are missing parts from this GBC. For me will be the first experience with GBC so I did my research and voila...I'm already shaking my tail...so happy I am .
Already found about the leaking oil (from the clutch bearing) problem and the overheating problem...now thanks to you I'm aware about firmware problems.
Really curious how they will make this piece of art work...cause customer expect this configuration no later than Tuesday next week and parts are still back ordered . I'll try to obtain the firmware from our local tech support but he's in vacation till Jan 10, 2010 .
Thanks again for the post

[Venom]

Something for down the road>>>
I found that I had to replace the duplex unit every 1.5 million copies on a 2090 because stream punch would jam only when duplexing. It looks like these were made in someones garage. We found that running the dies with the felt oil pad removed and no oil worked the best, otherwise the chads end up everywhere except the tray.

[Shadow1]

I guess it depends on the oil you use - GBC recommends light machine oil like 3-in-1 oil or Triflow lube - I found these to get sticky after a while, so I started using standard fuser oil since I gotta carry it anyway. Works great - and as expensive as the die sets are, I would do everything I could to prolong their life.

Interesting about the duplexer - ever figure out what was wearing to cause that?

[Venom]

We always threw a whole duplexer in< important account that we didn't want to mess with. I assume that feed rollers were main cause.

[Coptech]

I gotta say that so far, I am not GBC's biggest fan. I have an 1106 with the streampunch III and th BK5010 bookletmaker,Cover inserter,trimmer, and Book Folding Unit. The Streampunch gets used primarily with the coil bind die and as mentioned, if you don't oil it to death EVERY time before use, it will fold corners at exit. So far, it is the prize of the lot. I was warned about the clutch that will get dirty and hang up if they try to punch heaviers tock but so far, so good. The BK5010 is a major headache. First the BFU needs help as it will stall the edge square roller on a thick book. Learn the limits and train customer to turn off BFU when they reach that limit. The Cover insert is the way to go as the post insert is junk in my opinion. People want to try to feed heavy stock covers from the interposer and with it's standard doc feed rollers and belt system, it just won't handle them. Trimmer has been pretty trouble free. The BK5010 has had issues such as the infeed has a shaft with 2 bearings that rides on a cam from below. The bearing holder will spread and let the cam drop in between the groove of the shaft and the bearing where it will lock and cause jams. With the complete lack of communication that is designed between the GBC stuff and the engine, it will not show the jams immediately and finally shut down with an SC670 code. The next issue is that customer wants to fold 1 sheet of 11 x 17. Specs say it will do it but more times than not, 1 sheet bounces when it hits the stopper and causes a mis-fold that is way off. Had to readjust the folding roller height to stop the bounce. Now comes the kicker, This machine uses MicroPress also. There is absolutely no communication between main body and MicroPress. When it stops, you must go search why. Looking for out of paper, does it want you to remove pages from finisher?, is it low or out of covers? You just learn to go look at the machine from one end to the other. Also MicroPress has limits of how far you can go with firmware upgrades I am told.

Now I see that there is a BK5010e that is available for the color machine that has bi-directional communication. I wonder if it will be available later for BW machines also. I wish they would explain why Micropress will not let you take advantage of bug fixes and when they will be compatible with later levels of firmware.

Very much "trial by fire" with the GBC accessories.

I am keeping an open ear for advice from any GBC or MicroPress veterans here. Thanks, G.H.

[Shadow1]

The only accessories we have made by GBC are the streampunch and the RingBinder. The RingBinder is a MUCH better engineered and integrated piece of equipment.

The BK5010 is made by Plockmatic, and its built like a tank. If you can ever get it running right they will go forever - much better than the BK5000

I have a BK5010 running on a C900 with no problem, but I seem to have one that was mid or end production and slightly upgraded. Supposedly mine has an extra fan in the trimmer unit to blow the shavings down into the waste tray like the BK5010e does. I also had to replace the top and upper rear cover to make room for the optional finisher fan on the C900. Not sure about any improved communication other than the C900 communicates better than the MP1350 does, but thats the machine, not the booklet maker.

The StreamPunch is a pain in the <insert preferred anatomical location here> - always has been, and they're way overpriced as well. I'm surprised Ricoh hasn't built their own to replace them, but I've heard rumors that GBC won't license the die patterns unless we get the whole piece of crap from them. That seems kinda odd since their patents should have long since expired on anything like that, (if you can even patent a hole) but what do I know - I'm just an technician - they don't pay me to think.

[Smee]

Just want to clear this up - are you saying that the ONLY finishers compatible with the streampunch are the SR4050 and SR5010 (as in Unisys12's first post) with ANY machine or with the Savin 9090? Im still getting jams in the duplexer and the finisher on the AF2105 and SR841 - not a jam as such, the paper just stops so IM convinced its a timing issue. Ive tried all fixes suggested to me, even Shadows middle roller trick on the green belt but nothing has sorted it out yet. Now im wondering if its the wrong finisher after re-reading this post.

[unisys12]

Just want to clear this up - are you saying that the ONLY finishers compatible with the streampunch are the SR4050 and SR5010 (as in Unisys12's first post) with ANY machine or with the Savin 9090? Im still getting jams in the duplexer and the finisher on the AF2105 and SR841 - not a jam as such, the paper just stops so IM convinced its a timing issue. Ive tried all fixes suggested to me, even Shadows middle roller trick on the green belt but nothing has sorted it out yet. Now im wondering if its the wrong finisher after re-reading this post.

I was only speaking of the Savin 9090. That's where the SR4050 and SR5010 came in. Again, my combo had a timing issue that was resolved by the beta firmware only because the newer series machines do not print at their rated speeds from beginning to end. They start out slower and speed up to a speed faster than their rated speed. But throughout the job, they run their avg rated speed.

The problem, again only with my issue, was the fact that the third party product (the StreamPunch) ran at 90 pages a minute when connected to the 9090. So, at the beginning of the job, the 9090 might start out at 80 ppm and the GBC would be running at 90. The GBC would try to compensate for the timing differences, but it couldn't. Then jam. All the firmware did was allow the 9090 to run at 90ppm from beginning to end.

[stephend]

Until now I was lucky regarding this matter. The only configuration with a GBC I have includes an Aficio 7001 and unisys12 has perfectly right. The only solution for this variable speed problem is the beta firmware. Until now was no problems with the GBC, but my customer didn't start yet to use the beast at full potential. They have only 9000 pages printed on this machine....
Anyway I can tell until now that this configuration GBC + 7001 + SR 5000 must be perfectly leveled or it will give you major jamming issues and dog ears and jams in duplex, in inverter or the sheets will drop in between machine and GBC....
Another problem with GBC is the punches that are stuck due to static to the punch head instead of dropping in the punches collection bucket, even the GBC, machine and finisher are properly grounded....I had no explanation for this until now so we still monitor it.

[Smee]

I had a problem with the punches chads jamming up the backgate solenoid. This caused it to punch deeper into the pages so i made a guide or shield out of a OHP sheet and glued it near the solenoid. Seemed to have worked cause I havn't had that problem since.

However, the chads seem to go everywhere but in the waste bin!

So, Stephend - you have the beta firmware too? Maybe its what I need....Also, any ideas what makes it jam in the duplex / inverter? I mean, the paper hasn't even been punched when it goes i there.

[Venom]

There is a one way gear on back of fusing unit that drives exit rollers that fails as well

[stephend]

Hard for me to understand how GBC was accepted as a thrid party provider for Ricoh. It looks like Japan never heard about this North American deal...because it didn't bother to modify the machine firmware to recognise the stupid GBC. On the display the machine pictogram doesn't show the GBC...and if you don't power the machine & GBC in the right sequence...nothing works. I forgot to instruct the customer when I installed this crap..so hours later I had already my first recall for this...hahahhaha.
Yup the punches are everywhere except the bucket...but hey the metal panels are solid and the electrostatic paint is well done...so I think will be pretty good deal when will be to recycle this piece of....