[Misc] TASKalfa 4501i and 6501i dropping off network sporadically

[SenseiNYC]

A customer reached out to disccuss their TASKalfa machines 4501i and 6501i sporadically dropping off the network. They have noted that the machines may go down once a day or sometimes 3 times a day. They have also noted that the machines have been going down more frequently lately.

The boss went with a senior tech last week and the tech performed a reset. After that it seemed to be fine, for a day. I was asked to go on-site (I am IT/Networking) to determine if it could be the customer network. My diagnostic route was as follows:

• Connect to the customer network with laptop using DHCP in order to acquire network information
• Set my laptop to static IP with the DHCP information
• Direct connect laptop NIC to copier NIC via Ethernet
• Begin constant ping of copier in one window
  • Noted that latency was initially high and all over the place between 161ms and 4863ms and jumping with every response
• Connected with Command Center to verify no settings were incorrect
• Verified no sleep mode was enabled

During my examination with the customer right next to me, the machine became unresponsive to the network, meaning the NIC lights on both the copier and my laptop went out, ping was unresponsive and Command Center did not load pages. This is exactly what the customer has been noting with their tickets to us. They also noted that when this happens they simply unplug the NIC from the copier and plug it back in, so I did the same and lights came back on from the copier and laptop, but ping responses were still a mess.

I set the copier NIC from AUTO to 1000Mbps FULL and restarted the network stack. This only caused Ping Timeouts momentarily and the ping mess started all over again. So now I decided to test their network. First connected back to the wall port, performed a ping test to their router, consistently <1ms. Ping test to the DHCP server, consistently <1ms. Ping test to google, yahoo, msn, all consistent and within reasonable ranges. I performed a speed test with iperf3 for a short and long run, both showed averages about 945Mbps in both directions. Using a Fluke CableIQ I certified the cable run from the copier to the patch panel for the switchport. It showed the cable was a Cat5e which is older but sufficient for their needs.

Thinking of the copier now as a computer (since it is a Unix variant) I started to ask myself "what could cause this ping mess and even shut down the NIC?" and I remembered that one thing can be the source of this pain. Given all the variables I have experienced this with a few computers when the HDD begins to fail. As there is no way to perform a SMART diagnostic report on the copier, I want to assume this may be the case.

Has anyone else had any similar scenarios? Also while I don't think this is related, I am curious, can anyone explain to me why there are 2 HDD's in the copier?

Thanks.

[blackcat4866]

There's nothing wrong with your MFP. I had a situation like this in a huge factory, on a color Kyocera. the customer's complaint was that the machine would print two or three pages of a print job, then just stop printing. Then hours later they might get a couple more pages of that same print job. If they re-start the printer they might get a few more pages. Pings often exceed 2000ms. I connected directly to my laptop and printed hundreds continuously, for hours. I took a screenshot of of the ping window and presented it to the local IT. It turns out that the network cable to this machine exceeded the maximum 100 meters for IP4. I never got an explanation of how this was resolved. I must assume that there exists some kind of signal booster, or they used some alternative way to connect to the network.

[SenseiNYC]

There's nothing wrong with your MFP. I had a situation like this in a huge factory, on a color Kyocera. the customer's complaint was that the machine would print two or three pages of a print job, then just stop printing. Then hours later they might get a couple more pages of that same print job. If they re-start the printer they might get a few more pages. Pings often exceed 2000ms. I connected directly to my laptop and printed hundreds continuously, for hours. I took a screenshot of of the ping window and presented it to the local IT. It turns out that the network cable to this machine exceeded the maximum 100 meters for IP4. I never got an explanation of how this was resolved. I must assume that there exists some kind of signal booster, or they used some alternative way to connect to the network.

When I said the MFP's become unavailable on the network, I am not talking about delayed printing, I am talking about network unavailability. I am concerned that you didn't read the part of my question about the NIC lights going off on both the copier and laptop. The customer stated that scans failed because NO network was available which is when they started montioring the units. As I said there are multiple units at this customer and just under a handful of them (the older units) are starting to show this problem.

• Cannot scan, no network available
• NIC lights turn off indicating the copier lost it's own network connectivity
• Ping response time should NEVER be more than 2ms when directly connected to a laptop

I did state I AM the IT/network person they brought in. I am "the ringer" they hoped would prove the customer network was the issue, it sadly is not. It's the copiers. KMNetViewer even fails to connect to it when the network goes off on the copiers. It's a copier issue, I was just hoping that I was chasing the dragon down the right path, you brought me on no path at all.

[SenseiNYC]

You might connect your laptop directly to the copier and confirm that is indeed the copier or the network. Just saying because the only time I have seen that it was the copier was when the board/ethernet went out and then it would not connect at all.

I did mention in my Original Post that is the very first thing I did and performed extensive testing using that method.

[blackcat4866]

When I said the MFP's become unavailable on the network, I am not talking about delayed printing, I am talking about network unavailability. I am concerned that you didn't read the part of my question about the NIC lights going off on both the copier and laptop. The customer stated that scans failed because NO network was available which is when they started montioring the units. As I said there are multiple units at this customer and just under a handful of them (the older units) are starting to show this problem.

• Cannot scan, no network available
• NIC lights turn off indicating the copier lost it's own network connectivity
• Ping response time should NEVER be more than 2ms when directly connected to a laptop

I did state I AM the IT/network person they brought in. I am "the ringer" they hoped would prove the customer network was the issue, it sadly is not. It's the copiers. KMNetViewer even fails to connect to it when the network goes off on the copiers. It's a copier issue, I was just hoping that I was chasing the dragon down the right path, you brought me on no path at all.

There's nothing wrong with your MFP. I had a situation like this in a huge factory, on a color Kyocera. the customer's complaint was that the machine would print two or three pages of a print job, then just stop printing. Then hours later they might get a couple more pages of that same print job. If they re-start the printer they might get a few more pages. Pings often exceed 2000ms. I connected directly to my laptop and printed hundreds continuously, for hours. I took a screenshot of of the ping window and presented it to the local IT. It turns out that the network cable to this machine exceeded the maximum 100 meters for IP4. I never got an explanation of how this was resolved. I must assume that there exists some kind of signal booster, or they used some alternative way to connect to the network.

network unavailability = dropping off the network

Same thing, only worse.

[SenseiNYC]

network unavailability = dropping off the network

Same thing, only worse.

Still not seeing your point. You're insisting it's not the copier. I am insisting that it is. The NIC (Network Interface Card) lights go out when the problem occurs. One flashes which means there is activity and the other is constant indicating it has a LINK. This is pretty standard on any networked device. BOTH go out. The ACT light should flash if there is network activity but the LINK should only be out when there is no link. The switches are indicating that the device disconnects from the switchport, when directly connected to the laptop, after some time the same thing happens after a significant amount of traffic goes over the line (multiple constant pings, command center and kmnetviewer). Since these copiers are in fact computers, and when a HDD starts to die off, the S.M.A.R.T on the motherboard usually can notify the device but since we have NO boot console and probably no S.M.A.R.T. on the board, the only way to tell if the HDD is going (after 10'ish years) is to pull it out and test it manually, which I have not been given the OK to do, so I decided to come here and ask others their opinion.

I did not hear anything from you that indicates what the problem COULD be, only you posting so your post count goes up. Honestly I find no value in your response since you are not ssisting, only stating your opinion which right now I find carries little weight on the subject matter. So please, if you have nothing helpful to add to help resolve this matter, don't respond unless you have something useful.

If you wish to understand the problem, I can arrange a phone call with you and explain in painstaking details (which I already summarized above) the steps I have taken to prove the network is fine and the problem is isolated to the copier units.

[blackcat4866]

Still not seeing your point. You're insisting it's not the copier. I am insisting that it is. The NIC (Network Interface Card) lights go out when the problem occurs. One flashes which means there is activity and the other is constant indicating it has a LINK. This is pretty standard on any networked device. BOTH go out. The ACT light should flash if there is network activity but the LINK should only be out when there is no link. The switches are indicating that the device disconnects from the switchport, when directly connected to the laptop, after some time the same thing happens after a significant amount of traffic goes over the line (multiple constant pings, command center and kmnetviewer). Since these copiers are in fact computers, and when a HDD starts to die off, the S.M.A.R.T on the motherboard usually can notify the device but since we have NO boot console and probably no S.M.A.R.T. on the board, the only way to tell if the HDD is going (after 10'ish years) is to pull it out and test it manually, which I have not been given the OK to do, so I decided to come here and ask others their opinion.

Maybe I wasn't clear. I am not, and never was any kind of network professional. I know that the MFP will continue to communicate via crossover cable to my laptop, (ping times <1ms) but will not continue to connect via the customers network. If I connect my laptop to this same network drop on the customers network, I get ping times in excess of 2000ms. The copier cannot cause these long ping times, it is not even connected at the time. I can print continuously for hours with no difficulty from my laptop.

I did not hear anything from you that indicates what the problem COULD be, only you posting so your post count goes up. Honestly I find no value in your response since you are not ssisting, only stating your opinion which right now I find carries little weight on the subject matter. So please, if you have nothing helpful to add to help resolve this matter, don't respond unless you have something useful.

I am trying to tell you that you are wasting your time trying blaming the MFP. The MFP network card cannot maintain a connection, probably because the signal is so weak. Again, I am no kind of network professional. I stopped caring about post count a long time ago. You can read, or not. Your choice. The opinion that I got from the local IT was that the drop was in excess of 100 meters length. Didn't I say that? Maybe you've got a bad network switch port. Maybe your network cable was ran through the same conduit as a 220vac welder (induced currents)?

If you wish to understand the problem, I can arrange a phone call with you and explain in painstaking details (which I already summarized above) the steps I have taken to prove the network is fine and the problem is isolated to the copier units.

Perhaps one of others here would like to comment. I've said what I have to say. I thought you were the network professional? Why is the signal weak?

[ihatefinishers13]

A customer reached out to disccuss their TASKalfa machines 4501i and 6501i sporadically dropping off the network. They have noted that the machines may go down once a day or sometimes 3 times a day. They have also noted that the machines have been going down more frequently lately.

The boss went with a senior tech last week and the tech performed a reset. After that it seemed to be fine, for a day. I was asked to go on-site (I am IT/Networking) to determine if it could be the customer network. My diagnostic route was as follows:

• Connect to the customer network with laptop using DHCP in order to acquire network information
• Set my laptop to static IP with the DHCP information
• Direct connect laptop NIC to copier NIC via Ethernet
• Begin constant ping of copier in one window
  • Noted that latency was initially high and all over the place between 161ms and 4863ms and jumping with every response
• Connected with Command Center to verify no settings were incorrect
• Verified no sleep mode was enabled

During my examination with the customer right next to me, the machine became unresponsive to the network, meaning the NIC lights on both the copier and my laptop went out, ping was unresponsive and Command Center did not load pages. This is exactly what the customer has been noting with their tickets to us. They also noted that when this happens they simply unplug the NIC from the copier and plug it back in, so I did the same and lights came back on from the copier and laptop, but ping responses were still a mess.

I set the copier NIC from AUTO to 1000Mbps FULL and restarted the network stack. This only caused Ping Timeouts momentarily and the ping mess started all over again. So now I decided to test their network. First connected back to the wall port, performed a ping test to their router, consistently <1ms. Ping test to the DHCP server, consistently <1ms. Ping test to google, yahoo, msn, all consistent and within reasonable ranges. I performed a speed test with iperf3 for a short and long run, both showed averages about 945Mbps in both directions. Using a Fluke CableIQ I certified the cable run from the copier to the patch panel for the switchport. It showed the cable was a Cat5e which is older but sufficient for their needs.

Thinking of the copier now as a computer (since it is a Unix variant) I started to ask myself "what could cause this ping mess and even shut down the NIC?" and I remembered that one thing can be the source of this pain. Given all the variables I have experienced this with a few computers when the HDD begins to fail. As there is no way to perform a SMART diagnostic report on the copier, I want to assume this may be the case.

Has anyone else had any similar scenarios? Also while I don't think this is related, I am curious, can anyone explain to me why there are 2 HDD's in the copier?

Thanks.

Just to make sure, you ran all of the initial tests by just connecting the copier DIRECTLY to your laptop? No switch, no garbage ethernet splitter, etc., just laptop > network cable > MFP's NIC, yes? With both machines doing it, it's highly unlikely that it's the machines, but if I've learned anything in my 10 years, anything is possible.

[ThisPete]

I have never seen (or heard of) a 'network card ' on a copier/MFD/MFP go intermittent.. in my experience they work or they don't, end of..

And 'not work ' amounts to two, maybe three devices in that time.. and one of those was due to some oik student in a school 'adjusting' the alignment of the contacts in the RJ45 socket in the device

Just my humble experience in dealing with these devices (from multiple manufacturers) since they became network capable.. Please don't 'bitch' at me too @SenseiNYC.. we are trying to help.... 👍

I can't see the post that @SenseiNYC quotes from kuby .. any one else experience this too?...

[kuby]

You might connect your laptop directly to the copier and confirm that is indeed the copier or the network. Just saying because the only time I have seen that it was the copier was when the board/ethernet went out and then it would not connect at all. And I could see maybe one copier doing it but two? I still think it is a network issue.
**************************
Sorry some how it got deleted?

[ThisPete]

Were at least two different cables used, ignoring the devices own cable when direct connected?

Did anyone try IPA/contact cleaner and then several connect/disconnect routines for the RJ45 sockets?

It's extremely odd that you currently have two devices, essentially on the same network, both with the same problem.. a problem that is virtually unknown in this trade.... 🤷♂️

[ThisPete]

You might connect your laptop directly to the copier and confirm that is indeed the copier or the network. Just saying because the only time I have seen that it was the copier was when the board/ethernet went out and then it would not connect at all.
**************************
Sorry some how it got deleted?

Thank you kuby.. 👍

[tmaged]

The likelyhood of two machines exhibiting the same issue pretty much rules out the MFP's. I would stick a small swith between the wall port and the MFP, to rule out conflicts with their switch. I've seen the "GreenNet" switches do that.
The SSD on the machines is used for the OS, page memory etc. The HDD is not really needed and is used mainly for marketing in the US. European machines don't have a HDD. As far as I know there is no SMART report that Kyocera has available. You would have other error codes etc if the hard drives had any kind of failure.
On the 01 series MFP's, we're starting to see parts no longer available to order and are try to move customers to newer models.

[SenseiNYC]

Maybe I wasn't clear. I am not, and never was any kind of network professional.

It is clear that you are not a network professional, but I am. Hence why I was called in.

I know that the MFP will continue to communicate via crossover cable to my laptop, (ping times <1ms) but will not continue to connect via the customers network.

Crossover cables are gone. AutoMDIX have been pretty standard since roughly 2010.

If I connect my laptop to this same network drop on the customers network, I get ping times in excess of 2000ms. The copier cannot cause these long ping times, it is not even connected at the time. I can print continuously for hours with no difficulty from my laptop.

Not even close to the same scenario I described. I had my laptop connected directly (cross-over, peer to peer, direct ethernet, whichever term you wish to use) during ALL of my tests. The copiers onboard NIC FAILED during a direct connect test. While the onboard NIC almost never FAILS, I know this from over 20 years experience of being called in by multiple copier companies that contract me for networking. I have learned that the onboard NIC rarely fails and in fact I don't believe I've ever seen one fail. My example is extremely different from yours and I am being completely honest when I say if you really read my post from the start, you'd see I described every detail in every step without missing a beat. I pre-wrote my post in notepad based on my notes while on-site to ensure that the language could not and would not be misunderstood in any way. When you come over and post gibberygoob nonsense where your reply clearly seems to not relate to the situation I described, I do believe it's time to call you out on it.

I am trying to tell you that you are wasting your time trying blaming the MFP. The MFP network card cannot maintain a connection, probably because the signal is so weak.

Again you're the self-proclaimed "not a network person" and you're making a direct statement regarding a network device and even moreso, claiming something about a signal yet on a brand new machine molded patch cable (not home made) the "signal" as you put it makes no sense. If you're referring to WiFi, that's another story which is not part of this problem and was never mentioned. If you are referring to wired connectivity and the signal being weak... WHAT??????? Dude! Stop, get off the thread and just stop. An SNR over 20dB is considered good and should be the bare minimum in my opinion however a brand new patch cable right out of the bag should double that. All my patch cables are rock solid and I know you cannot possibly be talking about SNR with ethernet because as you put it, you're not a network person. Additionally my cables are all rated at 550Mhz, not 250Mhz or 350Mhz. Now as far as the copier NIC unable to maintain a connection probably because of the signal is weak.... Please just stop while you're behind.

I stopped caring about post count a long time ago.

ok so post count means nothing, so either you're bored and want to troll or you think you so smart you know something about everything. Nah, I'll say you're a habitual poster who can't control themselves.

You can read, or not. Your choice.

Can't help it when you're consuming my post with irrelevant nonsense bumping my post up while I am just trying to find someone who had a similar situation. You're the guy at the bar who hears people talking about something and you throw your unrelated nonsense into something that has nothing to do with it. Dude, here's another beer just go drink it outside.

The opinion that I got from the local IT was that the drop was in excess of 100 meters length. Didn't I say that? Maybe you've got a bad network switch port. Maybe your network cable was ran through the same conduit as a 220vac welder (induced currents)?

Again, Networking is my specialty. I certified the network. If you don't know what that means, google it. In fact, here you go...

https://www.flukenetworks.com/blog/cabling-chronicles/cabling-certification

https://www.flukenetworks.com/knowledge-base/cableiq/verification-qualification-and-certification

I have mentioned multiple times that I ruled out the network as the source of the issue. The copier company that called me in was hoping that I would find that the network WAS the issue, again sadly it is not. Therefore it all comes back to the copiers.

Perhaps one of others here would like to comment. I've said what I have to say. I thought you were the network professional? Why is the signal weak?

The psychology of forums is usually that the person who posts the most on a single post is "bogarting" the OP's thread and usually doesn''t want to get involved in the thread. I do hope that this has not discouraged others from posting. I have made all details available and I can assure anyone that my experience as a network engineer is solid (I invite challenges because it keeps me on my toes). I have been working with Kyocera copiers specifically for over 20 years, but don't ask me to replace rollers or a fuser because I'll pay you to do it! But as these machines ARE computers, they do follow the basic principles of computing. HDD's *DO* fail over time. S..M.A.R.T. was created to monitor and ensure the drives are healthy. I only base my theory on the HDD being the problem because PC's encounter similar behavior when they fail regardless of the OS (I've even seen Cisco routers exhibit this behavior when the memory card fails), but I was only asking if someone had similar experience - as well, why do these copiers have 2 HDD's.

blackcat4866 seriously not trying to knock you, but you bit off more than you should have on this. I'm new here (just a few years and no real posts) and would hate for this post to define me, but I'm sure you would hate someone consuming your posts with irrelevancies and inefficiencies as well.

[SenseiNYC]

Just to make sure, you ran all of the initial tests by just connecting the copier DIRECTLY to your laptop? No switch, no garbage ethernet splitter, etc., just laptop > network cable > MFP's NIC, yes? With both machines doing it, it's highly unlikely that it's the machines, but if I've learned anything in my 10 years, anything is possible.

Dell Laptop <-> Cat6a (550Mhz pure copper 24 gauge) <-> Copier Onboard NIC

Yup, as stated sir.