3 or 4 series primary feed jamming

[micdelbo]

Re: 3 or 4 series primary feed jamming

So, we were onsite yesterday for 4 hours. Customer paper would jam intermittently, sometimes going 50-100 pages without a jam. When it did jam, it would then jam an additional 4-5 times in the next 10-20 pages. Code was always J0511 with one sheet in the fuser and another shingle fed on the trailing 2-3 inches of the paper. See attached pics. It appears like the fuser drive stops before the transport stops, thus driving the second sheet into the first.

Kyo helpdesk recommended (which we already had done) changing feed roll to new style urethane rollers, move retard roll spring to both increase and decrease retard pressure, but nothing made a difference. Customer paper was Tru Red 24 lb bought from Staples.

We purchased $4 per ream paper at Walmart and when the machine would jam, we would replace the customer paper with Walmart paper and the machine would not jam. We ended up running the entire ream of Walmart paper with not a single jam. Customer paper still jammed as explained above.

I explained this to the customer, but of course they have used this paper for years on their prior Toshiba without issue. I explained we had zero J511 jams prior to March 20th when they opened the current box of Tru Red paper.

The Kyo helpdesk referred us to QA M130 and QA M310, neither of which pertain to the issue we are having. The QA's do not show the machine prefix of the serial number of the machine having the issue (19X), which is a much newer machine than the date of the QA, prefix of RVN.

While I do believe there is an issue with the paper, since we have seen this with other paper, both my tech and myself think there is something in paper feed timing or paper feed that Kyocera needs to look at.

We ended up taking the customer a case of 24 lb Hammermill to run and see if it jams. 300+/- pages into it, no jams.

I will try and remember to post update whether Hammermill paper runs good or jams.

Thanks,

Mike

[Ropariva]

Re: 3 or 4 series primary feed jamming

So, we were onsite yesterday for 4 hours. Customer paper would jam intermittently, sometimes going 50-100 pages without a jam. When it did jam, it would then jam an additional 4-5 times in the next 10-20 pages. Code was always J0511 with one sheet in the fuser and another shingle fed on the trailing 2-3 inches of the paper. See attached pics. It appears like the fuser drive stops before the transport stops, thus driving the second sheet into the first.

Kyo helpdesk recommended (which we already had done) changing feed roll to new style urethane rollers, move retard roll spring to both increase and decrease retard pressure, but nothing made a difference. Customer paper was Tru Red 24 lb bought from Staples.

We purchased $4 per ream paper at Walmart and when the machine would jam, we would replace the customer paper with Walmart paper and the machine would not jam. We ended up running the entire ream of Walmart paper with not a single jam. Customer paper still jammed as explained above.

I explained this to the customer, but of course they have used this paper for years on their prior Toshiba without issue. I explained we had zero J511 jams prior to March 20th when they opened the current box of Tru Red paper.

The Kyo helpdesk referred us to QA M130 and QA M310, neither of which pertain to the issue we are having. The QA's do not show the machine prefix of the serial number of the machine having the issue (19X), which is a much newer machine than the date of the QA, prefix of RVN.

While I do believe there is an issue with the paper, since we have seen this with other paper, both my tech and myself think there is something in paper feed timing or paper feed that Kyocera needs to look at.

We ended up taking the customer a case of 24 lb Hammermill to run and see if it jams. 300+/- pages into it, no jams.

I will try and remember to post update whether Hammermill paper runs good or jams.

Thanks,

Mike

[blackcat4866]

Re: 3 or 4 series primary feed jamming

I agree on this one. We have had a couple cases on high speed Konica Minoltas, in which fanning the paper made all the difference. Between us techs, we concluded that the fanning the paper was dispelling a static buildup in the reams, but there was no way to prove it. New reams of our paper always fed fine. =^..^=

[jcg54]

Re: 3 or 4 series primary feed jamming

We ended up taking the customer a case of 24 lb Hammermill to run and see if it jams. 300+/- pages into it, no jams.

I will try and remember to post update whether Hammermill paper runs good or jams.

We always recommend Hammermill, My supervisor tells me that kyocera had recommended it although I dont know when or where that recommendation came from exactly but we have had no problems with our hammermill.

[Kyodogs]

Re: 3 or 4 series primary feed jamming

Imagine, after 30 years of selling & servicing Kyoceras, we now have to tell the customers to only use Hammermill paper to prevent their Kyocera from jamming?!

Come on man, Kyocera dropped the ball on this and has no answers.

511 jam codes are a separation issue, they changed the design of the separation section in some of these machines.

The MZ machines are jamming dogs!

So yeah, in an economy where everyone is looking to save here & there, go out and tell them with your new Kyocera, it only likes top shelf paper

[jcg54]

Re: 3 or 4 series primary feed jamming

Imagine, after 30 years of selling & servicing Kyoceras, we now have to tell the customers to only use Hammermill paper to prevent their Kyocera from jamming?!

Come on man, Kyocera dropped the ball on this and has no answers.

511 jam codes are a separation issue, they changed the design of the separation section in some of these machines.

The MZ machines are jamming dogs!

So yeah, in an economy where everyone is looking to save here & there, go out and tell them with your new Kyocera, it only likes top shelf paper

I definitely agree with you, Although why cant the paper manufacturers stop cutting costs and just make paper to a better standard. Why is it on to the consumer to buy "better" paper just to get it to work. On the same coin Kyocera shouldn't be cutting costs either.

[Kyodogs]

Re: 3 or 4 series primary feed jamming

The only way to find out if it is a Kyocera issue or a paper issue is to compare other manufactures.
Are Konica machines jamming? Sharp, Canon, Ricoh?

[progoffice]

Re: 3 or 4 series primary feed jamming

I've had to deal with this issue multiple times. For me, the issue didn't start until about a year in to the pandemic. The feed units on these machines haven't changed since the 2 series, but what has changed (in my opinion) is the quality of paper. This pretty much exposed how sensitive the Kyocera feed systems are to low quality paper. The Konica machines we have in the field don't seem to have this issue. I hope Kyocera beefs up the feed systems on their next generation of A3 machines.

[Kyodogs]

Re: 3 or 4 series primary feed jamming

I've had to deal with this issue multiple times. For me, the issue didn't start until about a year in to the pandemic. The feed units on these machines haven't changed since the 2 series, but what has changed (in my opinion) is the quality of paper. This pretty much exposed how sensitive the Kyocera feed systems are to low quality paper. The Konica machines we have in the field don't seem to have this issue. I hope Kyocera beefs up the feed systems on their next generation of A3 machines.

[Dark Helmet]

Re: 3 or 4 series primary feed jamming

I had a 7353 and a 6004 jamming like crazy in tray 3/4. Grand and toy paper, bad cut. Fanning it was the only way to make it work.

I like to send customers this video, just wish it didn't have Ricoh in the title
This is a excellent example.

[blackcat4866]

Re: 3 or 4 series primary feed jamming

Thanks Lawrence! That video is a nice demonstration.

[ihatefinishers13]

Re: 3 or 4 series primary feed jamming

The only way to find out if it is a Kyocera issue or a paper issue is to compare other manufactures.
Are Konica machines jamming? Sharp, Canon, Ricoh?

Really not having any issues with Sharp's or Epson's... And honestly, not really on Kyocera much either, but those are getting less and less every day as we haven't sold them in 3-4 years.

With the Epson's, it really isn't the machine's fault, but the paper now is EXTREMELY dusty, and sensors get covered and confuse the machine, but that's after 50-75k before it has dust issues.

[fishleg]

Re: 3 or 4 series primary feed jamming

Feel everyone's pain. What is crazy is one month a certain brand of paper will be rubbish and the next it will be fine... Had customers use the same paper and bang one month it's terrible but thankfully when you can say look all 10 of your copiers are jamming then they tend to believe what you tell them.

Look out for 6600 as well jam in finisher from super curly paper on mornings just from being 70gsm stuff. I've had to install heaters on many customers as they've cut back on keeping the building heated as much.

Not sure how Kyocera can improve this as I've come across paper that is bonded together so much you have to peel them a part. I think even if they added another set of feed and sep rollers in front it would still get into the machine bonded together. They could go back to having an extra piece of rubber in front of the sep tyre just to push back but unsure how much affect that would have.

[Samanator]

Re: 3 or 4 series primary feed jamming

Kyo helpdesk recommended (which we already had done) changing feed roll to new style urethane rollers, move retard roll spring to both increase and decrease retard pressure, but nothing made a difference. Customer paper was Tru Red 24 lb bought from Staples.

What is the part number for this Kyocera urethane roller, please?

Thanks

[KYO_OEM]

Re: 3 or 4 series primary feed jamming

see attachment