Wounding if anyone has any answers to why the new 4 series 2554ci and all the way up to the 6054ci is using way more toner then the counter and coverage rate indicate. We have well over 10 MFP's that are brand new on their second blk toner bottle and even color and only have around 6k with 4-6% fill. We have turned off 464 sleep to calibration. All halftones look good on them no quality issues. We have reached out to a Kyocera rep and they still have no answer for us and this was back in April when we started to notice the high toner usage with low counter. All OEM toner. If you have any ideas or something to try please let me know. Thanks for the help
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Re: Low counts high toner usage
Depended to the runtime from DK + DV, system is running drum refresh and dv refresh independet to calibration cycles. (no good idea set to "OFF")
If system would mainly used for single prints, the runtime will increase and refresh is running more often than expected.
Without exact data it`s not possible to find the reason.
e.g. 60ppm system needs 1 sec for printing 1 page in multiprinting enviroment
Use U157 + U158 for dv runtime analysing
U157 shows runtime in minutes
U158 shows the page counter
easy calculation: U157*60/U158 shows needed time for developing of 1 page.
For a 60ppm system it must be nearby 1,5 seconds, if you get a result from 3 or higher, it`s clear why more toner needed
For 30ppm systems nearby the double time (i have seen values upto 18 seconds for 1 page)
Same for DK:
U120/U110 shows the running meters for 1 page.
A4 paper width = 21cm
If you get a result from 1 or more meters, more often drum refresh is running (have seen >2 meters)
Finally check U167 to get your own overview how the system would used from the endcustomer and if you must take care for C6600 in future.
3 values are logged by the system:
Page counter/ released runtime/ pressed runtime
Released runtime is counting up during startup and after page is leaving the exit unit, pressed runtime shows real working time for printing.
Very often i have seen terrible values for released runtime compared to pressed runtime and counter.
See screenshot from one page of my training explanations regarding how to analyse the U000 reports.
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Re: Low counts high toner usage
Thanks for the response when we have time we will go to one of them and look at this info you have provided to me and get some print out to pin to here. Just cant believe that drum and DV refreshes and one page documents can make a copier with 14k total counter 11k+ on blk and >3k color to be on its 3rd bottle of blk toner that is like 50k less pages then it should do and below 3k color and is on its 2nd bottle of all 3 colors just a head scratcher for surePermanently banned from Konica SSD.Comment
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Re: Low counts high toner usage
as i had written, without exact data it`s not possible to analyse. (No U000 reports, no analysing)
Cristal balls are not available for me
Take care for the service manual and check explanation from event log/ Toner log, maybe there you`ll find your answer.
Look for last line A,B or C and for the remaining toner at exchange.
Does the endcustomer shaked the toner well or not?
What`s behind U159??
Empty or nearby empty?Comment
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Re: Low counts high toner usage
but what does the prints or copies look like? is there a lot of coverage on the pages? are they printing pdfs with lots of text? or lots of images? yeah it's rated for 5-6% coverage. but if the customer is going over that amount. have you seen what 5% actual coverage is? it really isn't very much at all.Comment
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Re: Low counts high toner usage
The machine still has to do color calibrations, developer refreshes, drum refreshes, lubricate cleaning blades ... all of which require toner (and none of that toner ends up on prints). All of that toner ends up in the waste bottle. As KYO_OEM says, it makes a huge difference if endusers are running onesy twosy instead of running batches of 5K.
Theoretically, you would get the best toner usage efficiency if all print jobs went to a job box, then were released as batch all at once. So instead of 100 (1) page jobs, you'd have 1 (100) page job. It's like the energy saver function though: Can you wait an hour and print everything in a batch? Sure you can, but you wouldn't have the instant gratification of the print in your hand 20 seconds later. And if it costs the customer the same cost per print either way, they'd have no incentive to do so. =^..^=If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.
5) You are the person onsite. Only you can make observations.
blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=Comment
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Re: Low counts high toner usage
I totally understand the toner usage in refreshes and will get a U000 of one of them soon I was told, these are not my territory. The issues with the facts of refresh if that is using that much toner and the prints are >5% fill like we are seeing and we are on the 3rd blk toner bottle on one 2554ci that has 13k total prints each blk toner is sold in the aspect that its should do 25k per bottle on 5% fill so even if we just take 2 full blk bottles that is 50k it should come close too but only doing 13k, 37k pages are missing from this I cant image even if they did one page at a time that it would be shorting the toner bottles 37k pages yikes and thats not counting how low the 3rd bottle is already. One thing I thought of today is maybe the counter is not right in billing mode will find out when I see the U000 life time counter but im probly wrong on that. Ill get the data for y'all thanks for the responses and things to look at to help answer these questions of ours.
Side Note: Just want to thank you for the konica 808 toner drive fix been very helpful in the last 4 months.Permanently banned from Konica SSD.Comment
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Re: Low counts high toner usage
Your welcome. =^..^=If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.
5) You are the person onsite. Only you can make observations.
blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=Comment
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Re: Low counts high toner usage
As KYO is trying to say, nothing to talk about until you look at the data. MM464 calibration setting to LONG. Ensure MM325 is OFF. KFS will get you the MM000 reports from anywhere, maybe you have a machine on it? Do not forget the Service Status Pages
A bit more punctuation would help too
"Being ignorant is not so much a shame, as being unwilling to learn" - Benjamin Franklin
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Re: Low counts high toner usage
Finally you get additional small information regarding automatically developer refresh (T7 control)
Depending on the systems, up to 10% toner may be required for dev T7 only.
However, KYO has already included this consumption in the cartridge filling quantity, but should an extreme runtime increase happen, the calculated quantity will not be enough.
By the way:
Complete series from 25ppm up to 60ppm systems
So far I have not heard anything regarding this from the field.
For me i`ll close this case now.Comment
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Re: Low counts high toner usage
Here, I was emailed the U000 report and the status pages with config for one of the ones in question. This copier is on its second bottle of blk toner and first bottle of color. Color toner is rated for 12k and blk toner is rated for 25k pages @5% fill. The blk toner usage to counter is not bad but not great they do run around 10% fill on blk. The color is below 5% fill they are on their first bottle of toner and already down to around 45% with just 3k color on it so just like we have been seeing on KFS and our reports is that the bottles are falling way short of the 12k and this one is on the path to do so tooLast edited by 4Toon; 10-12-2023, 03:07 PM.Permanently banned from Konica SSD.Comment
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Re: Low counts high toner usage
THX for data.
A little bit confused, why not taken by USB/ txt file?
Why you wrote 3 toners for BK?
Eventlog shows 2 pcs only at the same date and time. 1pc was empty (C000) when it would mounted, 2nd one(A100) nearby 70% remaining (visible by status page)
No halftone adjustment since 15967 pages (U251/ 5th value)
Wrong density patch reading during U464/ compare U464/target to U465/ T7 CTD --> normally closed together color valuesU464/target shows the expected print density during calibration and T7 CTD shows the reading result by the ID sensorsFinally you had written from a coverage around 5%, but take care for service status page, there you can see 9,27%!!
Now it`s clear for me why system will never reach expected 25.000 (calculated by 5% coverage)
Expected with real values are max 13.000 pages.
One more time i saw:
Never trust a technician/ The system don`t lie
This i always tell the guys during my technical trainings.
This is not against you, you can`t read the reports like me...and i think you don`t have my experience
Now i will not spend more time for deeper analysing, i think that i will see a lot of other bad values...
Finally:
in past i had written that i don`t have a cristal ball to get the real data.
Without U000 it`s not possible to find the real reason.Comment
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Re: Low counts high toner usage
In my statement right above the documents I said that this is "one of the ones in question" meaning that the info that I present in the following statements might differ from previous comments. So I will say it again this copier is on its second bottle of blk toner and blk is not the one in question here as i said above its the color counter and how much toner it has used already. Yes the event log shows 2pcs being changed one blk "empty" and waste toner @70% full.
You said the halftones adjustments have been done at 15967 pages the copier only has 16180 total life counter on it. The values in U464 are not where they should be? should the halftone adjustments be done again? That could make color toner to be over half empty running below @5% fill and only have 3088 (life color counter)? I did the calculation that you said to do above and got 1.9 not far out of the range that you said to look at.
If you have a issue with me or the way I present my questions and issues then please refrain from messaging on this forum I created. I am not here to have a ego fight but here to try and get clear answers to my questions. Saying it is not against me then saying I cant read reports like you can and bringing my abilities into question is exactly against me haha
I also never asked if you had a cristal ball I sayed prior to your reply that I would work on getting the information you requested (U000 and status page) and just explained how the numbers of prints to toner usage on mutiple copiers just got me a little confused and tried to reinforce why I made the post in the first place any maybe some other views have seen this or have another view/answer to my question.
ThanksPermanently banned from Konica SSD.Comment
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Re: Low counts high toner usage
Your OP mentioned BLK and nothing about color yields so settle down and take heed. We are professionals who help those who help themselves. No one here is paid to figure out your job for you. Every trained tech knows to start with the MM000 report data to see what the machine is doing.
@KYOOEM: We are sorry for the comments made by this person.
When asking for help providing, reading, and understanding reports from the machine is your first most basic responsibility as someone who IS paid to figure out YOUR problems. You've been given some things to check and try, best you do that.
Heaving criticism on those HELPING only demoralizes them from helping the next guy and hurts us all.
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I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it.
I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand the post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think you're entitled to!"Being ignorant is not so much a shame, as being unwilling to learn" - Benjamin Franklin
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