AF 2035 second drum blade

[rthonpm]

I've had this argument with people before and heard good reasons on both sides. I was curious what people have thought of removing the second cleaning blade in the PCU of this machine. Some say they're an unnecessary complication, and kill drum life, others say you need them for the finer toner.
I worked on a team in Pennsylvania where it was standard practise to remove them, but after moving to Indiana they seem particularly adamant about keeping them in.
Finally I've come to the idea of 'the engineers put it there for a reason so I might as well keep it'. Of course these are the same people who put connecting clps on tandem trays...
What does everyone else think?

[scully]

We have differences of opinion here in the UK on this subject !
I personally leave them where they are as I have not experienced a problem to encourage me to remove.
John
Uk

[Walter]

2045 Charge Roller Cleaning Blades

The first models 350 & 450 had a Charge Roller Cleaning Pad . Shortly after the 1035 & 1045's were launched a new modified Charge Roller Cleaning Brush was added. I believe this was done because of C. Roller contamination. I can only assume that the Charge Roller Cleaning Blade is a countermeasure in trying to improve on C. Roller contamination in the 2045's. I don't think this blade has anything to do with the drum. The drum has a Cleaning Blade of it's own.

[blackcat4866]

I worked on the 350s, 450s, 1035s, & 1045s. I do recall the introduction of the charge roller cleaning brush which did work better than the cleaning pad.

The 350s & 450s had very little charge problems really. They ran really dirty, but usually made it to the PM without too much difficulty. Same for the 1035s & 1045s, but they ran a little cleaner.

[unisys12]

I don't think this blade has anything to do with the drum. The drum has a Cleaning Blade of it's own.

Yes, but this second blade helps with cleaning toner that the main blade may miss. I actually was told (and thought) this blade cleaned the charge roller. That is `til I read the Detailed Description on this subject in the service manual. It clearly states that it is a secondary drum cleaning blade.

As for my opinion on removing it... Man, to be honest, I've never thought about removing it. Since this machine uses a finer toner, but the same primary cleaning blade, it only makes sense to leave it.

To help these machines run a little cleaner for longer, we leave the toner out and actually run about 30 copies of the Savin (or Ricoh) test pattern before running TD and Dev initializations. We started doing this only on the B003 family. After we found that it worked really well, we did it across the board. Even the ones that have all the updated firmware that is suppose to address a lot of the dusting / over toning issues this family has had. We still do this on the newest family as well with no problems.

[Walter]

2035 Second Drum Blade

MAN !! You are right. I researched the detailed descriptions for myself. I was told the samething. I've seen many Charge Rollers worn badly and
ASSUMED the 2nd Cleaning Blade was touching the Charge Roller.

I didn't refer to the pm schedule , but spring tension for this blade may be critical. I seem to remember the 2nd Cleaning Blade Tension Springs being modified. at least in color. silver to black.

In addition to your procedure for making the B003 models run cleaner. Would you check SP 2001 001 (Charge Roller Bias) and make sure its at standard value. Before performing SP 2801 & SP 2805

Ref. B079 SM page 3-31 Charge Roller Replacement Procedure
Set SP 2001 001 to standard valve.

Ref. B079 SM page 3-29 Drum Replacement Procedure
Perform SP 3001 002 ID Sensor Initial ALSO do Developer Initialization setting SP 2805

Anyone know what SP 2805 Developer Initialzation really does!!!!!

[Cipher]

We have differences of opinion here in the UK on this subject !
I personally leave them where they are as I have not experienced a problem to encourage me to remove.
John
Uk

I agree.

The models that use these second drum blades pretty much seem to get to there 150k PMs or round about. (100k for the charge roller).
I do however swap the tension springs over with the modded ones though as they do apply less pressure which helps pre-long the drum.

[SGT_Snacks-64]

We normally remove the secondary cleaning blades when we replace the PCU parts for the first time. From what I've heard this does help the Drum reach it's 150k life. But I don't have enough experience to say for certain.


Here's one though. While I was training, I was told on this range, the Charge roller wears quicker if the Customer does a lot of printing, is this true? Because it doesn't make a lot of sense to me, personally.

[Scott_Lewis]

Ref. B079 SM page 3-29 Drum Replacement Procedure
Perform SP 3001 002 ID Sensor Initial ALSO do Developer Initialization setting SP 2805

Anyone know what SP 2805 Developer Initialzation really does!!!!!

Just a quick thought as I don't have a definitive answer. But, I wonder if it doesn't do a subset of the following starting with step 4.

Auto Process Control Flow (taken from the MP9000 manual)
Step 1 Charge Unit Corona Wire Cleaning
↓
Step 2 Process Control Begins (OPC Drum Start Timing)
↓
Step 3 ID Sensor Vsg Adjustment
↓
Step 4 Vb (Development Bias Voltage), Vg (Charge Grid Voltage),
LD (Laser Diode) Power Adjustments
(Based on Drum Potential Sensor Readings)
↓
Step 5 TD Sensor (Vref) Adjustment
(Based on ID Sensor Readings)
↓
Step 6 Vb (Development Bias Voltage), Vg (Charge Grid Voltage)
Adjustments (Based on VL Detection)
↓
Step 7 Process Control Ends
Vsg Reflectivity of the bare surface of the drum. This reading is used
with Vsp (the reflectivity of the ID sensor pattern where it is covered
with toner) to calculate Vref (Vsp/Vsg).
Vb Development bias. A charge applied to the drum to prevent dirty
backgrounds on copies. Backgrounds emerge dirty if the residual
potential (Vr) remains high.
Vg Voltage output of the charge corona unit. Vg is used to adjust Vd,
the drum potential of the unexposed areas of the drum.
Vh Standard drum potential for halftone.
VL Light potential, the drum potential after maximum laser exposure.
The drum potential sensor measures VL by reading the white
patches of the potential sensor pattern. To change VL, the machine
adjusts input current of the laser diode.
Vd Detected by the drum potential sensor, this is the reading of the
drum surface before it is exposed by the laser. This is the "dark
potential".
Vdref The target value of Vd, the dark potential of the drum before it is
exposed by the laser.
LD PM Laser Diode Pulse Modulation. This is strength (intensity, amount of
light) of the laser beams.

[Fearless V K]

This reply is for Walter.

You should reset the charge roller voltage first (unless you didn't clean or replace the charge roller for some reason). This ensures proper drum ID sensor initialization.

Also SP 2-805 (Dev. initialize) just does a stir on the developer, and does not initialize the TD sensor. This helps to 'recharge' the developer when you are just replacing the drum at 150K in between the developer's 300K life.

We do not remove the second cleaning blade, but like Unisys12, we run some toner out of new developer before initializing the TD sensor (several sky shots until the shininess is gone from the copies).

[Mess]

I have found that the cost of a drum assy is less than replacing all the parts in it. so i never have these issues anymore

[unisys12]

I have found that the cost of a drum assy is less than replacing all the parts in it. so i never have these issues anymore

Based on my figures, from tonight, a whole PCU is about $190 more than the total of all the parts to rebuild one. Which is why we rebuild ours in our shop. The rebuild parts I used for the cost comparison are; drum, both drum blades, brass bushings, pick-off pawls, charge roller, charge cleaning roller, both toner entrance seals and drum seals. These are all Savin parts, since we're a Savin Dealer.

At least, that's how we do it. Even if you factor in the 20 minutes, tops, it takes to rebuild one and there is still a big cost savings. Not to mention the time saved at a PM, not rebuilding the drum thus allowing the tech to have more time to spend doing other things, can roughly pay back the shop labor within a few PM's.

Given all this stuff that I just said... if you have some updated prices, please let me know. See, we have a problem with spending that extra time doing other service calls and not reinvesting that time back into rebuilding drum units. So, we can't seem to rebuild enough of these things fast enough.

[SGT_Snacks-64]

Based on my figures, from tonight, a whole PCU is about $190 more than the total of all the parts to rebuild one. Which is why we rebuild ours in our shop. The rebuild parts I used for the cost comparison are; drum, both drum blades, brass bushings, pick-off pawls, charge roller, charge cleaning roller, both toner entrance seals and drum seals. These are all Savin parts, since we're a Savin Dealer.

We usually just replace the Drum, Charge Roller, Main cleaning blade and give the Brush roller a good old Hoover, unless it's REALLY worn. The other parts we usually fit on failure.

Even if you factor in the 20 minutes, tops

15 tops, surley

[Kopyrtek]

I was told by the Ricoh hotline to not use the dev initial setting unless it was a new install.We generally run 25-35 copies to detone the dev before running td initial.As for the 2nd cleaning blade..some work some don't but as a rule we leave them in.

[paulg]

We used to run the toner down in the dev but im pretty sure on the newer batchs the toner content is a little lower as we have far less problems if not done.

On the 1045 for sure for Ricoh it was far cheaper to buy the pcu then the parts and labour in the UK.
I think some of the newer versions it is different. Ricoh have a very bizzare pricing system from my experience.