[Dead] c308 no power (bad PSU?)

[Elmojo]

Hi all,
Well, my client's trusty c308 is acting up again. :/
This morning, I'm told it "turned itself off and on a few times" before finally indicating ready state.
I assume this was during the warm-up cycle, as the user typically turns the machine off with the physical switch overnight.
After printing one document, the machine powered off, and will not respond at all now.
There have been storms in the area, and other equipment in the office was damaged recently by surges (blown UPS attached to a PC on the same circuit), so I'm suspect of a power issue.
I've had the office manager try a few things (I'm remote), such as removing wall power for 15 minutes, then trying again, with no response from the machine.
Is there an easy way to test if this is just a bad PSU module, or am I likely looking at a fully dead machine?
If it's just a dead PSU, how difficult of a swap is that? Any good sources that are recommended above something like eBay?

[Cantechman]

The DC power supply board is not hard to replace. Verifying that it is the board is hard without bring onsite.

[Elmojo]

The DC power supply board is not hard to replace. Verifying that it is the board is hard without bring onsite.

I figured I would need to make a visit to do some testing, I just need to gather as much info ahead of time as I can about what and how to test, since it's about an hour drive each way.
Is that something that would be outlined in the svc manual? I think I have a copy of that somewhere...

EDIT: Aha! I see that it is indeed covered. Other than what's outlined in the attached image, can anyone think of any additional tests I could/should run while I'm there, to determine if it's only a bad DCPU, or perhaps something more serious?

[tsbservice]

I never saw or heard of restarting cause bad PS on any 4e/8/0i series models. Constant rebooting on 4e series was bad SSDB. The analogue in 8 series is eMMC and I will suspect primary this.
REmote panel to machine go to CE mode before visiting and check for past codes in service history. That should give you a good lead too or you can post codes here and some good souls may help... including myself
Get prepared is key to success.

[Elmojo]

REmote panel to machine go to CE mode before visiting and check for past codes in service history.

I would love to do this, but the machine is stone dead at the moment, so I have no way to access any logs or codes, remotely or otherwise. Is there a way to pull any of that data without power to the machine? I can't imagine, but I'll defer to the K-M gurus...

[tsbservice]

I would love to do this, but the machine is stone dead at the moment, so I have no way to access any logs or codes, remotely or otherwise. Is there a way to pull any of that data without power to the machine? I can't imagine, but I'll defer to the K-M gurus...

Didn't see it from your initial post but after re reading ALL again...it looks like PS indeed.
I'm sorry for jumping to post answer without proper reading.
If you are in USA Hytec should repair and have power supply.

[Elmojo]

Good call, I forgot about Hytec! I'm checking their catalog now, and I don't see any listing for the DCPU. I do see 2 listings for a high voltage (HV) unit, but that's a different part, right?
For some reason, the site is saying my credentials are invalid, so I can't check pricing. Odd.

[copyman]

simple to check PS. check voltage going in and 5 & 24vdc going out. connector & pin #'s to check voltages are in service manual.

Hytech has board listed part # A7PUR70700, DCPU 100V, $230 for advanced exchange or $170 to repair

[Synthohol]

if there are no fans = no 24v if no LEDs on MFB board = no 5v
does sound like dc psu.

[Elmojo]

Thanks all for the info, VERY helpful!
I'll probably go ahead and get the DCPU on the way, since the machine is fairly far from me, and there's no way for me to test anything from here.

[Slammers]

Some thoughts on this, all good points discussed so far!

I had a client with a 4e series device in an area of a factory with dirty AC.
The macine died twice, last codes avaialble before it didn't boot again were "Instantaneous power failure".

In both occasions the symptom was "No Lights, No Fans" i.e no 24v or 5v.
However, swapping the DCPU did NOT fix the issue. I had to swap the MFPB to resurrect the device each time.

I never had a chance to diagnose the boards that came out but I assume there is some SMD that has blown due to power spikes.
Never had a DCPU go bad, always the MFPB in my experience. I even had an 4e that got hit by lightning: fried the network port and nuked the MFPB, but the DCPU and PCRB all survived.

I would take a spare MFPB with you.

I have also had a machine refuse to power on as the OPE Panel had died, same symptoms.

[Elmojo]

However, swapping the DCPU did NOT fix the issue. I had to swap the MFPB to resurrect the device each time.

Oh man, don't tell me that! lol
That actually does seem feasible, since they have notoriously nasty power in that building, and there were storms with surge events not long prior to this latest failure.
Previously, that same machine lost the ethernet port on the MFPB, and I had to 'convert' it to USB in order to get them back running. I won't be surprised if you're correct, and it ends up needing a new main board. If that's the case, I'll either get a refurb'd one from Hytec, or just suggest that they call it scrapped and buy another used machine locally. There's a c368 available for around $2k with very low hours, but it's almost 6hrs from me. I'd rather not drive that far if I can help it.
We'll see what happens when this new DCPU arrives, I guess.

[Slammers]

Oh man, don't tell me that! lol
That actually does seem feasible, since they have notoriously nasty power in that building, and there were storms with surge events not long prior to this latest failure.
Previously, that same machine lost the ethernet port on the MFPB, and I had to 'convert' it to USB in order to get them back running. I won't be surprised if you're correct, and it ends up needing a new main board. If that's the case, I'll either get a refurb'd one from Hytec, or just suggest that they call it scrapped and buy another used machine locally. There's a c368 available for around $2k with very low hours, but it's almost 6hrs from me. I'd rather not drive that far if I can help it.
We'll see what happens when this new DCPU arrives, I guess.

Oof, that is all sounding like it is the main board, but fingers crossed it may just be the DCPU.

For the client that nuked 2 boards they agreed to buy a beefy UPS for the machine.
I was skeptical at first, as I had never heard of anyone running a copier from a UPS before.
Turns out you can as long as it has a decent rating. Not had a problem with that machine since, has 2.3M clicks on it now and the UPS is still working after 2 years.
UPS also works as a surge buffer which I think is the main issue I had before.

[Elmojo]

Ok, now I'm interested... I've always been told you can't run any laser-based printer/copier on a UPS due to the startup load. What's your definition of 'beefy'?
Do you recall the brand or specs? I could totally convince them to put it on a UPS, if we can find one that will work. Everything else in that office is on UPS, due to the dirty power in the neighborhood.

[Slammers]

Ok, now I'm interested... I've always been told you can't run any laser-based printer/copier on a UPS due to the startup load. What's your definition of 'beefy'?
Do you recall the brand or specs? I could totally convince them to put it on a UPS, if we can find one that will work. Everything else in that office is on UPS, due to the dirty power in the neighborhood.

The client got the UPS themselves, I am not sure of what brand and rating they got, but it is running a C454e.
I seem to remember that the UPS did throw an error, but it did not effect the operation.
I tested it on site and the UPS could keep the copier running mid job, full speed for roughly 2 mins before the UPS was empty, but this was all they needed to get to the machine and flip the door switch before all power was lost.
The main issue they were having was spikes and surges rather than full loss of power, and the UPS is perfect at stopping this.
Sorry I don't have any more info on it.

Edit:
Looking at a fully loaded 454e it will draw 2.1kw at power on, so a UPS with 3000VA/2700W would probably do the job.