Panasonic FP-1670 a.k.a. Lanier 6717

[Retired_EE]

I own a Lanier 6717 photocopier that I bought new in about 1995. I understand it was made by Panasonic as their P/N FP-1670.

The copier has only done ~70k copies. It worked well until I moved it by truck about 60 miles back in 2001. After the move, the copies were so poor that I quit using it. About 2 years ago, I attempted to fix it by replacing the drum and, I *think*, developer (recall doing something that was pretty messy). Installed a new bottle of toner, too.

I can only say that made things much worst. In maybe 30 "copies", the entire bottle of toner had been transferred to the waste bottle, and the inside of the machine was quite dusty. I've attached a pic of a typical copy.

I have the "Service Summary" documents from Lanier. It shows all the error codes, parts replacement intervals, test points, etc -- but no troubleshooting info or theory.

The copier does not display any error codes. Out of desperation, I did a "memory reset" thinking it might contain corrupted values. That had no effect. The backup battery is good, emitting about 3.3V.

I measured the charge corona voltage at -5.65kV (spec. is -5.4 to -5.6 kV). I can't imagine that small error could cause the sort of problem I'm seeing. I'm a recently-retired electrical engineer, so I should be able to fix this. I'd be appreciative to anyone who can point me in the right direction. Or, how about a book on the photocopier theory?

[pepper38_cnd]

You almost had it! What you should have done is replace Drum, Drum Cleaning Blade, Charge and Transfer wires, then run F8-09.

Replacing just the Drum and Developer if the wires are worn out and not running F8-09 ( Toner Density Adj ) caused the machine to think it was under toned and add toner constantly. I also think there is a drum counter reset I can't remember it's been a while but if there is that resets the background compensation.

Also on some of the panasonics I can't remember if it applies to this model, but if the glass is put in upside down the machine will not see the black patch and continually add toner.

Do all of the above and you should have a good copy again.

[Retired_EE]

pepper38_cnd, thanks for the fast reply!

I managed to execute F8-C09. This definitely had an affect, as the attached pic shows. However, I think there are other issues. The copy is now very light. Possibly because the toner bottle is nearly empty? (But the "low toner" icon is not illuminated on the control panel.) Of greater concern is that the copy is not at all uniform. The upper half of the page is recognizable as the original, but the lower half is not.

Wires worn out? Mine are mechanically intact. Do they deteriorate with age? I did not replace the charge or transfer wires, as they are not supposed to be due until 100k copies.

I failed to replace the cleaning blade, which is due at 60k. Could that cause the sort of problem I am seeing? As I mentioned in my first post, there may be a problem related to moving the copier by truck. I noticed there is a function to lock the optics for transport -- which I did not do. Could that have caused a problem?

F7, C21 - C99 perform counter resets. I could not find a drum counter reset.

The glass has never been removed.

I appreciate being able to come on this forum and ask professionals. I also believe in quid pro quo -- I'd be happy to offer my expertise with component-level troubleshooting if it would help someone in the future. PM me.

[Luther]

run f8-14 for the drum, it may be too late if the developer is overtoned, but try it

[pepper38_cnd]

F8-09 should only be run with new Developer. Luther is right about the drum reset that's the one I couldn't remember. It's been a long time since I serviced those models. Luther's probably right about the Developer as well by your sample it looks like it's toast!

[Retired_EE]

run f8-14 for the drum, it may be too late if the developer is overtoned, but try it

I don't think my machine has F8-C14. Attempted to execute it, but the display turned to "---" and nothing happened.

F8-C14 is not listed in my service summary either. It goes from C00 to C09, with no missing pages.

The only place a "14" function is named is F6-C14, (exposure level, enlargement mode, 200%).

Maybe the Lanier is not *exactly* like the Panasonic?

But did not see anything in the service summary that referenced resetting the drum. ???

EDIT: Looks like F7 is used to reset counters. I have execute C21 and C22. Do these actually change the copier's behavior, or just zero the counts? No change in copy quality.

[Luther]

shouldnt be different ,i would try cleaning the mirrors under the glass(optics) then try adj f6-11 to a higher number, (exposure adj) but honestly the machine was produced in 1990 so you have more invested with the drum and developer then the machine is worth

[Retired_EE]

Noticed a cryptic note in the Service Summary that said,
"Factory settings are recorded on the Memory Sheet located under the black plastic Middle Inner Cover." Photo below shows what I found.

Corrected some erroneous values for F5 (Functions) and F6 (Adjustments), but copy quality did not improve.

Today, I received the book Professional Photocopier Troubleshooting and Repair, by Eric Kuaimoku (published in 1993). I bought the book via Alibris.com for $2.20(!) + $3.95 shipping. Have only skimmed the book, but it has already given me a better understanding of how analog photocopiers work. I can recommend it to the technically-minded person wishing to repair their own copier.

[derek]

reset all those code and the clean the slit glass and adjust the exposure settings this should fix the problem

[Retired_EE]

I have replaced the developer, drum, cleaning blade, and corona wires. A fresh bottle of toner was installed. I have cleaned all the optics (including slit glass) with glass cleaner, and cleaned the inside of the machine with a 3M electronics vacuum.

I have performed F8-C09 (Auto-toner adjustment) several times and keep getting roughly the same values stored in F6-C21 and F6-C26.

I have reset all the other service programming and adjustment parameterss to their factory default values.

The orientation of the paper is such that the problem is clearly at the rear of the machine. Am considering trying to reverse the drum to see if the problem moves to the front -- but not sure if that is mechanically possible.

Any other ideas?

[derek]

this looks like the cleaning blade is not working you did put the spring back on the blade didnt you . also check the blanking lampd which are above the drum to the left with the drum unit removed from the machine

[Retired_EE]

this looks like the cleaning blade is not working you did put the spring back on the blade didnt you . also check the blanking lampd which are above the drum to the left with the drum unit removed from the machine

Thanks for the information.

The blanking lamp (I think we call it the erase lamp in the US) works and it is clean. It actually is a number of small bulbs wired in series. Could only some of them be dim? Assume this is also called "discharge lamp" which is not scheduled for replacement until 240k copies.

Yes, I did put the spring back on. Here is a pic of the cleaning blade installed. You may not be able to see much, but I don't think it is installed incorrectly. But I think you may be on to something here. The waste toner bottle seems to have a massive amount of toner in it (35 grams) considering how few test copies I have made (maybe 30 - 40). That means more than 10% of the 290 grams contained in the toner bottle has already been transferred into the waste bottle! I *think* this problem first started after I replaced the drum.

[RSCA]

Does the copy feel gritty? That would be developer pulling. The earlier samples you included look like old fashioned AC blast. That is the separation voltage which is AC interfering with the transfer voltage which is DC. I service Panasonic copiers in the 80's and early 90's. I finally gave it up as a lost cause. There are new digital copiers available now for under $1000.

[Retired_EE]

Does the copy feel gritty? That would be developer pulling. The earlier samples you included look like old fashioned AC blast. That is the separation voltage which is AC interfering with the transfer voltage which is DC. I service Panasonic copiers in the 80's and early 90's. I finally gave it up as a lost cause. There are new digital copiers available now for under $1000.

No, not gritty. I have measured all the corona wire voltages, and they are all very close to spec.

This is mostly a matter of pride with me now! My time is free. I have usually been able to fix whatever I set my mind to -- electronics, vehicles, home repairs -- this is really beginning to bug me.

[copytechman]

Where is the machine located (environment wise), because your sample kind of looks like condensations on the optics somewhere as well.

Regards!
A.