TASKalfa 4501i and 6501i dropping off network sporadically

[SenseiNYC]

You say the tech performed a reset, either a u21 or via command centre. This will factory default the Nic which is a step I would have also done. My only concern is these machines are quite old now, likely 10 to 12 years.

I was brought in after the dealer and their techs performed the U21 and physical exam of the machine. Fans and board are fine, so they told me.

What sort of environment are the machines in? Near the sea? Corrosive chemicals, anything that might compromise the pin connection of the NIC?

A large office in a copy room for the bean counters.

First thing I’d do as a dealer would be to try and upgrade the client. “Puppy dog” a new machine for them to try for a week. They like the machine as it has no issues and they buy it. Problem solved. or Try and source a IB-50 which is an optional gigabit network card or an IB-51, an optional wireless card and test the connectivity with those. or Have the copier tech company replace the main board as the NIC is a part of that.

Above my pay grade :-p

PS. Re the HDDS. On the high speed machines of this era, they doubled up two 160gb Hard drives to give 320gb storage. Later models had a single 320gb HDD. I doubt these are anything to do with your issue. They are just storage and play no part in the copier re connection or firmware. You may even find the copier will function without them minus a function or two like job storage. On later models, HDDs were an option.

And THAT is what I was looking for. If the copier internally creates a RAID 0 (doubles the volume to 320GB with 2x 160GB) and one HDD begins to fail, then the OS flakes out, which could manifest as the network dying, losing it's stack or losing cache (forgetting it's connected until reconnected or restarted). How do we test the health of the HDD's in these machines besides pulling them out? Do they have built in HDD diagnostics?

[Ropariva]

I was brought in after the dealer and their techs performed the U21 and physical exam of the machine. Fans and board are fine, so they told me.


A large office in a copy room for the bean counters.


Above my pay grade :-p



And THAT is what I was looking for. If the copier internally creates a RAID 0 (doubles the volume to 320GB with 2x 160GB) and one HDD begins to fail, then the OS flakes out, which could manifest as the network dying, losing it's stack or losing cache (forgetting it's connected until reconnected or restarted). How do we test the health of the HDD's in these machines besides pulling them out? Do they have built in HDD diagnostics?

Ok. In test mode you can do a HDD format U24 or a HDD scan disk U989. I believe the scan disk can take some time.
AFAIK this generation machine doesn’t run any of its O/S off the HDD. Try disconnecting it first and see if the machine still runs. I suspect it will but I could be wrong.
Let us know how you go with this.

[SenseiNYC]

Ok. In test mode you can do a HDD format U24 or a HDD scan disk U989. I believe the scan disk can take some time.
AFAIK this generation machine doesn’t run any of its O/S off the HDD. Try disconnecting it first and see if the machine still runs. I suspect it will but I could be wrong.
Let us know how you go with this.

I passed that info on to the copier techs. When they have a chance (probably next week) they're going to perform a backup, pull the HDD's and boot the copier. if it fails with a HDD error, then we know the HDD is needed. They think they have a single 360GB which they will bring on site. Currently however the customer has said for the past 2 days since I worked with the unit, they've had no issues. Nothing I''ve done would cause the machine to start working again other than a system restart. Maybe it was tired and needed a coffee?

[Black Cloud]

I will tell you straight, machines of this vintage that have the network speed set to Auto will have difficulty determining the communication speed on some networks. The work around is to manually set the speed so it doesn't keep dropping off trying to synchronize and failing. I've been doing this since 1984 and I'm telling you it is not the HDD. It is network related.

[Ropariva]

I passed that info on to the copier techs. When they have a chance (probably next week) they're going to perform a backup, pull the HDD's and boot the copier. if it fails with a HDD error, then we know the HDD is needed. They think they have a single 360GB which they will bring on site. Currently however the customer has said for the past 2 days since I worked with the unit, they've had no issues. Nothing I''ve done would cause the machine to start working again other than a system restart. Maybe it was tired and needed a coffee?

Yep. Coffee definitely needed. Perhaps your making/remaking of the network connections has simply refreshed the pin connections in the RJ45 socket. Wouldn’t be the first time I’ve had poor network connections due to mild corrosion.
On another point…..The techs really should be pressing their sales team on this. Purely from a copier/printer perspective these models were rubbish compared to the new generation and have no business still being in service. If the copier company was truly servicing this client properly these machines would have been replaced years ago and we wouldn’t be having this conversation. Feel free to pass on my observations to them, especially now the issue seems to be solved. This is the time their sales guys can go in and use the “see how good our techs are!” card and secure a deal. All the best. Alan.

[Samanator]

One thing I did not see in this long conversation is if the firmware is current.

I have found many copier companies and tech have the attitude that one only updates firmware when one has to, usually after some catastrophic event. If the copier company is a true dealer, they will have access to firmware. And most firmware updates are easy. Put tthe firmware on the root of an empty memory stick, turn off the machine, put the stick in the USB slot on the machine, turn on the machine, Turn off the machine when the update is completed and remove the memory stick.

No matter when company I have worked for (different manufactures), I have always made it a point to keep firmware updated. To me, this has become even more important since these devices have become connected to networks. And I have been doing this since the days of analog machines.

This is not a cure all, but I have found that machines, no matter the manufacture, have less problems if the firmware is current.

Good luck

[SenseiNYC]

I will tell you straight, machines of this vintage that have the network speed set to Auto will have difficulty determining the communication speed on some networks. The work around is to manually set the speed so it doesn't keep dropping off trying to synchronize and failing. I've been doing this since 1984 and I'm telling you it is not the HDD. It is network related.

Day 3 and your suggestion has been working. Thanks for the confirmation.

[SenseiNYC]

Yep. Coffee definitely needed. Perhaps your making/remaking of the network connections has simply refreshed the pin connections in the RJ45 socket. Wouldn’t be the first time I’ve had poor network connections due to mild corrosion.
On another point…..The techs really should be pressing their sales team on this. Purely from a copier/printer perspective these models were rubbish compared to the new generation and have no business still being in service. If the copier company was truly servicing this client properly these machines would have been replaced years ago and we wouldn’t be having this conversation. Feel free to pass on my observations to them, especially now the issue seems to be solved. This is the time their sales guys can go in and use the “see how good our techs are!” card and secure a deal. All the best. Alan.

I was trying to omit some info about pressing for newer machines. Non-profits usually are cash-strapped and try holding onto things that are affordable.

[SenseiNYC]

One thing I did not see in this long conversation is if the firmware is current.

I have found many copier companies and tech have the attitude that one only updates firmware when one has to, usually after some catastrophic event. If the copier company is a true dealer, they will have access to firmware. And most firmware updates are easy. Put tthe firmware on the root of an empty memory stick, turn off the machine, put the stick in the USB slot on the machine, turn on the machine, Turn off the machine when the update is completed and remove the memory stick.

No matter when company I have worked for (different manufactures), I have always made it a point to keep firmware updated. To me, this has become even more important since these devices have become connected to networks. And I have been doing this since the days of analog machines.

This is not a cure all, but I have found that machines, no matter the manufacture, have less problems if the firmware is current.

Good luck

I am assuming the FW is current. The copier company that pulled me in is a stickler for using the latest FW. I can tell you that it does have the latest TLS version which makes me think it is updated.

[ihatefinishers13]

I will tell you straight, machines of this vintage that have the network speed set to Auto will have difficulty determining the communication speed on some networks. The work around is to manually set the speed so it doesn't keep dropping off trying to synchronize and failing. I've been doing this since 1984 and I'm telling you it is not the HDD. It is network related.

I had this once on a 3252ci before, it was randomly taking a while to print, and a lot of times would get errors printing with jobs. Adjusted that setting and it was great for 4 years. Not surprised that this would help, especially if they have old machines, they probably have an ancient network with ancient equipment.

[tmaged]

Day 3 and your suggestion has been working. Thanks for the confirmation.

You said you did that in your original post ?

[SenseiNYC]

I had this once on a 3252ci before, it was randomly taking a while to print, and a lot of times would get errors printing with jobs. Adjusted that setting and it was great for 4 years. Not surprised that this would help, especially if they have old machines, they probably have an ancient network with ancient equipment.

Their network is relatively new, within the past year or so.

[SenseiNYC]

You said you did that in your original post ?

Yes that was 3 days ago.

[Ropariva]

I was trying to omit some info about pressing for newer machines. Non-profits usually are cash-strapped and try holding onto things that are affordable.

We support many non profits here, animal shelters etc. When we have a client like this with an old device we work closely with them to get them into something a little newer at minimal expense. Most copier companies will have good “last generation “ machines available. No one really wants to support ten plus year old devices in the field. These are the Windows XP of the copiers world.

[SenseiNYC]

We support many non profits here, animal shelters etc. When we have a client like this with an old device we work closely with them to get them into something a little newer at minimal expense. Most copier companies will have good “last generation “ machines available. No one really wants to support ten plus year old devices in the field. These are the Windows XP of the copiers world.

Yup, as I said, I'm just a network consultant that was brought in to determine if the customer network was the issue. I don't get involved further than that.