indentured servants my ass.....

[mrwho]

Re: indentured servants my ass.....

All of a sudden, this rush of thought hit me, maybe from God? If you use Google earth to scan the areas that have been hit by disaster, and count the number of strip clubs vs. the number of churches, you realize that God is real, and he is really pissed off...AT CHURCHES! I know if a hurricane took out my town, it might destroy 100 bars and clubs, but 7 to 10 times that in ministries. Based on what I read in the old testament, this is a bad time to be an American Christian. YOU BETTER RUN!

Incidentally, bringing back the Lisbon's earthquakeMalagridasoil liquefaction during an earthquake, destabilizing the fundaments of large buildings)."

[Chameleon]

Re: indentured servants my ass.....

Those links reminds me of the people that used to let buildings burn because they thought lightning was God's judgement. I see what you mean, I wonder if they realize they are showing the world they worship what must be a puny god. If their god can be stifled by lightning rods, extra plywood, or simply moving to higher ground, that doesn't seem like one worthy of worship to me. The one I know isn't limited. I love these lyrics "all that religion ever made of me was just a sinner with a stone tied to my feet", knowing Jesus brings the change, not religion.

The problem with not challenging those assertions is that these people are weak and vulnerable mentally and are easily controlled by people with an agenda.

I for one think people benefit when their assertions are challenged. I would like too see this applied to Darwinists.

[DAG COPIERS & COMPUTERS]

Re: indentured servants my ass.....

Dag, one of the things that I see a lot, are people who believe and as you stated, are willing to believe the most simple explanation, usually that god did it. The problem with not challenging those assertions is that these people are weak and vulnerable mentally and are easily controlled by people with an agenda. What these people do not realize is that it weakens the appearence of just how great their faith is, when statements are made that are so outrageous that most christians cannot believe it. All of the natural disasters that happen, well that is God punishing us savagely as he does in the bible. Here are some examples. I could post hundreds if I had the time.


Right-Wing Pastor Says God Is Punishing America with Hurricanes, Drought | TFN Insider


Is God Punishing America?


Religious "leaders" blaming Hurricane Sandy on the LGBT community - Boston Spirit Magazine - Boston.com


Is God punishing America? | The Augusta Chronicle



So instead of weather, The same storms that have occurred since the beginning of time are now punishment. And if you have an agenda, you can keep telling the sheep that the bad stuff won't stop until they follow what you say and ignor all facts that contradict what you say. This one would be kind of a cross over subject...

Huckabee blames school shooting on no God in classroom

So, they can't explain or never want to talk about this...


Shootings: Schools vs. Churches


Using their own twisted logic, Christians in America must be keeping Jesus out of church. It is just as I have suspected all along.

Thanks Gentlemen, for your views, let me tell you one thing: ''Thinking is the most difficult work in this world". That is why many people shy away from it. ''SUSTAINED logical Thinking is even much more difficult". Logical thinkers like Galileo Galilei, in the 16th century, who determined that the earth was round & revolving round the sun, contrary to the popular opinion then...[that the earth was flat, & sun orbiting earth] were considered 'Heretics' by the early church. In fact Galileo was even imprisoned by the early church for his 'divergent' views only later to be proved right by science. Thank God the Scientific community, a couple of years ago demanded and received Apology from the Pope on behalf of the church for their action against Galileo which happened about 400years ago.
- Based on our discussions so far, it may actually not be a 'far-fetched' idea if one was to concur with the adage that,"Religion is opium of the masses''...I don't know who coined this word, but there seems to be some element of truth in it.

[fixthecopier]

Re: indentured servants my ass.....

Dag I like the statement about people not thinking because it is hard. That is so very true.


AS for the quote about religion, it was made by Karl Marx and may not mean what most people think...here is the quote...

• Religious distress is at the same time the expression of real distress and the protest against real distress. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. It is the opium of the people. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions.
  Karl Marx,

[fixthecopier]

Re: indentured servants my ass.....

Those links reminds me of the people that used to let buildings burn because they thought lightning was God's judgement. I see what you mean, I wonder if they realize they are showing the world they worship what must be a puny god. If their god can be stifled by lightning rods, extra plywood, or simply moving to higher ground, that doesn't seem like one worthy of worship to me. The one I know isn't limited. I love these lyrics "all that religion ever made of me was just a sinner with a stone tied to my feet", knowing Jesus brings the change, not religion.


I for one think people benefit when their assertions are challenged. I would like too see this applied to Darwinists.

If you would like to challenge my beliefs in evolution, bring some facts and data to the table and lets see what you have.

[fixthecopier]

Re: indentured servants my ass.....

I just found this and thought it was relevant...


Penn Jillette's 10 Commandments for atheists

1. The highest ideals are human intelligence, creativity and love. Respect these above all.
2. Do not put things or even ideas above other human beings. (Let's scream at each other about Kindle versus iPad, solar versus nuclear, Republican versus Libertarian, Garth Brooks versus Sun Ra
3. Say what you mean, even when talking to yourself. (What used to be an oath to (G)od is now quite simply respecting yourself.)
4. Put aside some time to rest and think. (If you're religious, that might be the Sabbath; if you're a Vegas magician, that'll be the day with the lowest grosses.)
5. Be there for your family. Love your parents, your partner, and your children. (Love is deeper than honor, and parents matter, but so do spouse and children.)
6. Respect and protect all human life. (Many believe that "Thou shalt not kill" only refers to people in the same tribe. I say it's all human life.)
7. Keep your promises. (If you can't be sexually exclusive to your spouse, don't make that deal.)

9. Don't lie. (You know, unless you're doing magic tricks and it's part of your job. Does that make it OK for politicians, too?)
10. Don't waste too much time wishing, hoping, and being envious; it'll make you bugnutty.

[Akitu]

Re: indentured servants my ass.....

On the note of evolution, it has been observed and recorded in smaller life forms. The reason we don't see it immediately in larger more complicated species is simply because of the longevity of the species and the rate of reproduction. Hence why you won't ever see an elephant suddenly evolve a third tusk in our lifetime, because the elephant's longevity is longer than our own and their rate of reproduction is not absurdly fast.

Take for example, the streptococcus bacteria, or the staphyloccus (strep/staph infections, respectively), which have evolved to become resistant to basic penicillin. The reason we've noticed this change in our lifetime, is the longevity of a bacterium is a matter of minutes or hours, and they'll reproduce hundreds if not thousands of times per day. We can witness their growing resistance to something they've been treated with due to their own microscopic evolutions and have changed our methods of treatment for them.

Will we see ourselves evolve anytime in the next thousand years? Highly unlikely. Can we say there's a possibility that Homo Erectus was a relative of ours who existed thousands of years before Homo Sapiens? Yes, there's every possibility, but until it can be proven with the "missing link" there will always be doubters, just the same as until there can be proof of a God, there will always be doubters.

To break down the word theory a little further, I'll reference a rather resourceful website and pull a quote from it, on the topic of the theory of gravity. Newtonian Gravity - Numericana

"Everything becomes clear if you assign their proper meanings to words like "theory", "law" etc. In a scientific context, "theory" is not an insult (as in the silly put-down "it's just a theory"). A theory is the most elaborate form of consistent scientific knowledge not yet disproved by experiment. In experimental sciences, a theory can never be proved, it can only be disproved by experiment."

As stated, a theory does not mean "may or may not be", it simply implies that the theory has not yet been disproved through experimentation, eg. the theory of evolution, or the theory of gravity.

I realize this isn't quite the religious aspect of this discussion, but I had seen evolution mentioned several times and thought some scientific words would make everyone feel smarter after reading them.

[mrwho]

Re: indentured servants my ass.....

There are several documented cases of evolution through natural selection on species with short life spans. One of the most well known is about the Peppered moth in London, which changed from being mainly white to mainly black due to the industrial-age pollution, and is now getting back to being white as the polution nowadays is not as bad as it used to be.

[Akitu]

Re: indentured servants my ass.....

There are several documented cases of evolution through natural selection on species with short life spans. One of the most well known is about the Peppered moth in London, which changed from being mainly white to mainly black due to the industrial-age pollution, and is now getting back to being white as the polution nowadays is not as bad as it used to be.

A very fine example. With small examples given such as this, how can anyone deny the theory that humans may have actually evolved from a similar life form? According to the theory of relativity, the evolution rates between life forms will all be relative. Bacteria and fruit flies, moths and other creatures with short life spans and high reproductive rates will show notable signs of evolution in our lifetime because we can witness generation after generation after generation. A human being on the other hand, with an average longevity of nearly 70 years and in most cases, 1-2 children (varying by region of course), will take many more sets of 70+ years to show any noticeable signs of change, hence why we have not observed any majour evolutionary change in our lifetime.

[MR Bill]

Re: indentured servants my ass.....

Evolution is one thing. But when there is no life at all like at the beginning of time. ? How did we start? Even Darwin said there had to be something to start the SPARK of life. He did believe there was a god.

This is to complicated of a subject. And you will never convince people one way or the other. So I try to stay off the subject.

Fixthecopier dude. Forgive me getting off your subject here. If you like Penn Jillette then see what he has to say about the 2A.

A well regulated Militia, being neceray to the security of a free state, ( see that last comma ) the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

He talks about the comma being a pause and clumsy. The only place out of the entire Constitution where these old hack framers of our country FUCKED it up. His words. He is using Sacasm with that staement.

I really like the guy.

[Akitu]

Re: indentured servants my ass.....

Evolution is one thing. But when there is no life at all like at the beginning of time. ? How did we start? Even Darwin said there had to be something to start the SPARK of life. He did believe there was a god.

This is to complicated of a subject. And you will never convince people one way or the other. So I try to stay off the subject.

A very valid point, I suppose we'll have to wait for more results from the Large Hadron Collider before we have an idea of what happened way back when... Perhaps the Unified String Theory may hold some kernels of wisdom, if only we could figure it out...

I don't believe this is about convincing, merely discussing. If there is no discussion, how can a common middle grounds ever hope to be met? Without discussion, it devolves into an argument, with one side screaming who's wrong at the other trying to see who can scream louder. (Almost sounds like American politics!)

[mrwho]

Re: indentured servants my ass.....

But when there is no life at all like at the beginning of time. ? How did we start? Even Darwin said there had to be something to start the SPARK of life. He did believe there was a god.

Miller's experiment tell us that primitive earth should have favorable conditions to the appearance of life. What exactly sparked it is open to discussion - every possibility is open, even god snapping his fingers and making it happen, providing, of course, there is a god.

I don't believe this is about convincing, merely discussing. If there is no discussion, how can a common middle grounds ever hope to be met? Without discussion, it devolves into an argument, with one side screaming who's wrong at the other trying to see who can scream louder. (Almost sounds like American politics!)

Of course, we're (almost?) all grown ups and mature and able to cope with someone who has a different ideal than ourselves.

As for me, I've been told many times that there is no definitive proof for the evolution theory - to which I answer, very well then, there's no definitive proof of the existence of god either. So, where does that leave us?

In the end we believe in what we want to believe - as long as we don't try to force that belief onto others (and I believe no one in this forum has done so), we're all just having a nice chat over a cup of coffee.

Peace!

[Darren King]

Re: indentured servants my ass.....

There are several documented cases of evolution through natural selection on species with short life spans. One of the most well known is about the Peppered moth in London, which changed from being mainly white to mainly black due to the industrial-age pollution, and is now getting back to being white as the polution nowadays is not as bad as it used to be.

With all due respect, that seems more an argument against evolution. All it is saying is that the white ones got eaten. And when they stopped getting eaten they re-appeared. Evolution is supposed to produce a different species. Not the case in this example.
I found this article.
"It is a common mistake to confuse the name of the morph with that of the species or subspecies, hence mistakes such as "Biston carbonaria" and "Biston betularia carbonaria". This might lead to the erroneous belief that speciation was involved in the observed evolution of the peppered moth. This is not the case; individuals of each morph interbreed and produce fertile offspring with individuals of all other morphs; hence there is only one peppered moth species."

[Akitu]

Re: indentured servants my ass.....

With all due respect, that seems more an argument against evolution. All it is saying is that the white ones got eaten. And when they stopped getting eaten they re-appeared. Evolution is supposed to produce a different species. Not the case in this example.
I found this article.
"It is a common mistake to confuse the name of the morph with that of the species or subspecies, hence mistakes such as "Biston carbonaria" and "Biston betularia carbonaria". This might lead to the erroneous belief that speciation was involved in the observed evolution of the peppered moth. This is not the case; individuals of each morph interbreed and produce fertile offspring with individuals of all other morphs; hence there is only one peppered moth species."

A very good post, I'd have to agree. Not the best example with the moth, but only due to a technicality in that it was a change in how the species presented - a morph - rather than a true evolution. Though I would have to say that's not necessarily an argument against evolution, just a mis-stated fact of something that can be construed as evolution. Thanks for clearing up the misconception about a morph vs evolution though, that should create some new interesting dialogue for this discussion.

[Darren King]

Re: indentured servants my ass.....

I have not been able to find any article with actual observed evolution that produces a new species. Even the bacteria example isn't evolution. The bacteria is still a bacteria, it is just resistant.