indentured servants my ass.....

[DAG COPIERS & COMPUTERS]

Re: indentured servants my ass.....

As you may be aware already, I am not one of those who believe in 'Blind faith'. Far from it. On the contrary I am one of those who strongly believe in CRITICAL THINKING, and that includes questioning the existence or occurrence of any phenomenon. This then brings us to the point raised by Mr. Bill, that ''Even Darwin said there had to be something to start the spark of life, He did believe there was a god''.
Now can anyone tell me, 'Doesn't critical thinking DEMAND that we should go even further to explore, search and investigate Darwin's own belief that 'there had to be 'something' to start the spark of life, He did believe there was a god?'. Any Scientist worth his salt will not shy away from ALL the issues raised by Darwin in connection to his theory of evolution. Man's ever inquisitive mind will always demand answers to these questions. It is healthy development.
- It is true the 'theory of evolution' has a lot of merit in it. But it also exposes us to the still unanswered question....as posed by none other than Darwin himself: 'That something to start the spark of life'. It is the IDENTITY of that ''something'', that ORIGINAL SUBSTANCE, that demands answers, ( NOT the process of evolution), and you don't have to be Religious or an Atheist to need these answers, it is as good for one as is for the other.

[MR Bill]

Re: indentured servants my ass.....

I know Dag.

And i did say forgive me for bringing that up here. I only mentioned it to fixthecopier dude because he mentioned Penn Jillette. And I agree with you fixthecopier dude about your view on the 2A.

I'll not bring it up here again..

[fixthecopier]

Re: indentured servants my ass.....

I know Dag.

And i did say forgive me for bringing that up here. I only mentioned it to fixthecopier dude because he mentioned Penn Jillette. And I agree with you fixthecopier dude about your view on the 2A.

I'll not bring it up here again..

So, did you get your user name from where i think? That would be SNL?

[fixthecopier]

Re: indentured servants my ass.....

I must say thank you once again for this particular post. I can also say, ''Now you are Talking". If you can recall, in my earlier posts I had requested if you could 'avail' for us some literature or some form of atheist 'Bible'. Now I can see that you are posting some of the 'books' written by atheists or on Atheism.
- Having said that, let me add here that I really see nothing new in the 10 commandments of Atheist as posted above. I can only see it as a ''VERSION''...Translated from the original "TEXT" ...which is God's 10 Commandments as given to Moses. OR a VARIANT of the famous code of Hammurabi.
- Jesus summarized all these 10 ten commandments into two:
1- Knowing and Loving God, the only one, with all your mind, body and soul.
2- Love your neighbor as you Love yourself.
' There is no any other commandment greater than this', concluded Jesus.
And its true, LOVE surpasses everything.

Dag, I must point out that the big difference here is that the Atheist Top 10 does not require me to worship anyone and there is no threat of eternal damnation if I do not...

[atwageman]

Re: indentured servants my ass.....

Some individuals no matter their race or nationality, or religous views, will be nothing more than indentured servants their entire lives, no matter how hard you try to help them rise above. Should those of us that have skills and means treat them like they are lower than whale shit? No.

Slavery has many forms.

[MR Bill]

Re: indentured servants my ass.....

Ya , that's it fixthecopier dude. SNL. Your avatar , I'm guessing that is a picture of you. any one ever tell you you kinda look like Frank Zappa. Mother's of evolution. Or is that Frank Zappa and the mothers of invention. ??

LOL. Like the wiskers. I saw Frank Zappa about 30 years ago. Good guiter player. Oh darn. Excuse me Dag. Wrong subject.

[fixthecopier]

Re: indentured servants my ass.....

Ya , that's it fixthecopier dude. SNL. Your avatar , I'm guessing that is a picture of you. any one ever tell you you kinda look like Frank Zappa. Mother's of evolution. Or is that Frank Zappa and the mothers of invention. ??

LOL. Like the wiskers. I saw Frank Zappa about 30 years ago. Good guiter player. Oh darn. Excuse me Dag. Wrong subject.

I have new respect for you sir, I wish I had seen Zappa, Say hello to Mr. Sluggo for me, OH Nooooooooooooo...

And my avatar, that's my evil twin Skippy. He is always getting on line, pretending he is me, and posting shit just to stir things up. You haven't seen him lately, have you?

[Chameleon]

Re: indentured servants my ass.....

Who make god and who make the one which make god? etc

Just for the heck of it, I thought I'd give a shot at answering this.
*DISCLAIMER* The answer I offer is speculation, and from a Christian worldview at that, just ignore this post if you wan to. *DISCLAIMER*

The short, unsatisfying, answer is nothing made God, he is without beginningeven timesomething existed.

There are only two possibilities for anything that exists:

1. It has always existed and is uncaused
2. It had a beginning and was caused by something else.

Something cannot be self caused, because it would have to exist already in order to cause anything. A FIRST cause, an uncaused one, must exist, otherwise there would be nothing. It would have to be something that was not created, something without a beginning, something not finite, but rather something infinite, something eternal. There are only two possibilities, either the universe itself or something outside the universe has always existed.
*warning* Interjecting worldview for a secondsomethingJohn 8:58 Jesus said to them, 'Verily, verily, I say to you, Before Abraham's coming -- I am

[DAG COPIERS & COMPUTERS]

Re: indentured servants my ass.....

Thanks Chameleon, for that excellent reply. It was really a logical analysis of the concept of 'the beginning' of things.
Now let me add this quote from the Bible; ''In the beginning the word already existed; the word was with God, and the word was God. From the very beginning the word was with God''.[ John 1:1-2].

- ''When I go to the Israelites and say to them, 'The God of your ancestors sent me to you,' they will ask me,' What is His Name?' So what can I tell them?
God said, ''I AM WHO I AM. This is what you must say to them: 'The one who is called 'I AM' has sent me to you. This is my name FOREVER.''
That was the conversation between MOSES & GOD, when the God called him and assigned him a job to lead the people of Israel out of Egypt.[Exodus 3:14-15].

***NB: The Scripture teaches us that God is not fully understood until He reveals Himself to you, and is fully accepted at His face value. Scripture is the history of God revealing Himself and of the various responses of human beings to that progressive revelation.
- The names of GOD as they appear in the Holy Scriptures are:
1)- ELOHIM, used of all gods, for the early writers acknowledged the presence of other gods (1 Sam.28,13).
2)- EL, the strong one, the Ruler- a name often attached to a place or an attribute of the god 9Gen.31,13; ex.20,5).
3)- EL SHADDAI, God Almighty(Ex.6,3; Num.244).
4)- EL- ELIGON, the most High(Gen.14,18; Ps.82,6)
5)- ADONAI, a word of relationship as of master to servant, or of wife to husband
***6)- JEHOVAH, YAHWEH, JAHWEH: ''He who Was, is,and will be Always". In other words, the original and essential quality of life, the only true life, Existence, the one without whom there can be no existence at all, the only one who has existed THAT IS SELF DERIVED (John 5, 26).***

- By the way, God is so easy to find; And He can best be found along the road of duty and sacrifice and pain. He is in and through everybody & everything. A living and THINKING God!

[fixthecopier]

Re: indentured servants my ass.....

God must have planned for man to sin and be cast out of the garden. Seems like kind of a huge wasted planet to create for 2 people.

[DAG COPIERS & COMPUTERS]

Re: indentured servants my ass.....

God must have planned for man to sin and be cast out of the garden. Seems like kind of a huge wasted planet to create for 2 people.

- ADAM: This name in Hebrew means ''Humanity''. Literary 'man', homo sapiens.
- EVE : This name sounds similar to the Hebrew word for ''Living''. The first woman; The mother of all living(GEN.3,2); It is probably a generic name for life itself; She is the personification of motherhood.
- The Hebrew word for 'woman' and 'man' have similar sounds.
*I think God didn't create the planet for 2 people only. From the above, and other stories in Genesis 4:14-15 ('I will be a homeless wanderer on earth, and anyone who finds me will kill me', complained Cain, when God him rebuked for killing his brother Abel. verse15: 'But the Lord answered, " No. If any one kills you, SEVEN lives will be taken in revenge"). This passage clearly indicates that there were other people existing on the planet earth who were created by God!
- The writers of the Old Testament were simply trying to 'paint a general picture' of creation and how the originally sinless man became a sinner. Adam and Eve were chosen as example, or 'Prototype', if you want.

As for, 'God having planned for man to sin and be cast out of the garden', I highly doubt it. Ok, this may not be a proper analogy, but let's first compare. Is there any manufacturer of an equipment, worth his salt who would take all the trouble in Research & Development...(and you know what this means in terms of resources), to make a complete equipment and later throw it into dustbin? Does the manufacturer not go the ' extra mile' to prepare a 'users Manual' so that the one who buys the equipment can get the BEST in USE VALUE than the money he paid? What happens to the equipment and owner if he does not follow the manufacturer's instructions on how to use the equipment? Would the manufacturer himself be happy to learn of the misuse of his equipment? You may compare the relationship between a landlord and a tenant, as another example.
The same applies to Adam & Eve in the garden. The one who put them there, and who knows all, and what is good for them, 'gave them guide- lines on how to get the best out of the garden', But they Disobeyed the instructions. The owner of the garden was annoyed with them and threw the out of His property. They lost all of the benefits & privileges hitherto given to them.

[Chameleon]

Re: indentured servants my ass.....

God must have planned for man to sin and be cast out of the garden. Seems like kind of a huge wasted planet to create for 2 people.

In a way he did. Dag pointed to it....the word was with God, the word became flesh. He already had a plan in place to redeem mankind, if needed.

[fixthecopier]

Re: indentured servants my ass.....

- ADAM: This name in Hebrew means ''Humanity''. Literary 'man', homo sapiens.
- EVE : This name sounds similar to the Hebrew word for ''Living''. The first woman; The mother of all living(GEN.3,2); It is probably a generic name for life itself; She is the personification of motherhood.
- The Hebrew word for 'woman' and 'man' have similar sounds.
*I think God didn't create the planet for 2 people only. From the above, and other stories in Genesis 4:14-15 ('I will be a homeless wanderer on earth, and anyone who finds me will kill me', complained Cain, when God him rebuked for killing his brother Abel. verse15: 'But the Lord answered, " No. If any one kills you, SEVEN lives will be taken in revenge"). This passage clearly indicates that there were other people existing on the planet earth who were created by God!
- The writers of the Old Testament were simply trying to 'paint a general picture' of creation and how the originally sinless man became a sinner. Adam and Eve were chosen as example, or 'Prototype', if you want.

As for, 'God having planned for man to sin and be cast out of the garden', I highly doubt it. Ok, this may not be a proper analogy, but let's first compare. Is there any manufacturer of an equipment, worth his salt who would take all the trouble in Research & Development...(and you know what this means in terms of resources), to make a complete equipment and later throw it into dustbin? Does the manufacturer not go the ' extra mile' to prepare a 'users Manual' so that the one who buys the equipment can get the BEST in USE VALUE than the money he paid? What happens to the equipment and owner if he does not follow the manufacturer's instructions on how to use the equipment? Would the manufacturer himself be happy to learn of the misuse of his equipment? You may compare the relationship between a landlord and a tenant, as another example.
The same applies to Adam & Eve in the garden. The one who put them there, and who knows all, and what is good for them, 'gave them guide- lines on how to get the best out of the garden', But they Disobeyed the instructions. The owner of the garden was annoyed with them and threw the out of His property. They lost all of the benefits & privileges hitherto given to them.

OK Dag, you know what your problem is? You are way too smart . [laughing as I type]. I think I mentioned in another posting that most of what is preached is taken literally and you keep coming back with well thought out answers that defend your point in a logical way. You are certainly out of place in America with your logical thought. Rather than changing their views to keep up with the times, they just try to rewrite history... http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/30/sc...anted=all&_r=0


Although I may still disagree with some of your assertions, I thank you for presenting them in an intelligent way.


Remember creationist, The Flintstones is just a cartoon, not a documentary.

[fixthecopier]

Re: indentured servants my ass.....

Dag, on that thing you brought up about God having created other people on earth at the same time as Adam an Eve. Who? Why is this not mentioned further in the bible?

Opinion #1... bible was written by man who didn't put a lot of thought into it.

Opinion #2... God was running other experiments at the same time and created several other "Gardens", and each one developed into a different religion. The one God liked the most was killed off by the others. So he sent his son to tell everybody to stop that shit, and since nobody is taking him seriously either, EVERYBODY is going to hell!

Also the Christian myth is that when you go to hell, Satan is there to torture you forever. If Satan is the enemy of God, why would he be working for him. Maybe it is a much nicer place than heaven they just don't advertise.

Jim Jeffries- God VS. Devil
As far as I know the Devil hasn’t brought out a book. We don’t know his side of the argument. If you ask me, the Devil and God are having an argument and the Devil is being the bigger fucking man. God’s just writing shit about him and the Devil is going “I am not even going to fucking comment son, If you talk about me like that”.

(via hisprophets)

[fixthecopier]

Re: indentured servants my ass.....

For those of you taking the "Pro God argument, I throw this at you for thought...

(Cribbed from James Rachels)

Divine Command Theory says:
1. What God commands is what is morally right; what God forbids is what is morally wrong.
Euthyphro:
2. Is what is right that way because God commands it, or does God command it because it is already morally right?
makesit right.

Moral rightness is Assuming that God commanded us to be honest, this makes honesty morally right. But the choice of commanding honesty was not made for any reason (if it were, thenthat reason
The idea that God is benevolent is rendered empty
3. God commands us to do what is morally right = God commands us to do what is good for us.
whatever God commands is automatically morally right. After all,
4. God commands us to do what is morally right = God commands us to do what he commands us to do.
God commands us to do what is good for us no matter what he commands. Combining 3 and 4 above we get
5. God commands us to do what is good for us = God commands us to do what he commands us to do.
empty. As Leibniz said in Discourse on Metaphysics (1686):

So in saying that things are not good by any rule of goodness, but sheerly by the will of God, it seems to me that one destroys, without realizing it, all the love of God and all his glory. For why praise him for what he has done if he would be equally praiseworthy in doing exactly the contrary?